Pied Side or Whiteside..??????

[Hunter2011]

I think that the white makes them look kool, and unique lol

 

[Maxim]

I´m not the breeder but I know him. There are some males remaining for $250. He thinks the pied gene is present there too, because some sibblings hatched pied sided.

 

[Vinman]

Some times the pied sided does not have any white markings on the side or it can be verry little white . Look at the 2 males I have in the pic's. I showed them to Don S. He thinks it is the same thing going on. The dead give away is that they are very diffussed as soon as they hatch and they have a very clean backround color. I have a normal female PH for sale she is the sisters to the 2 bloodred males

 

[Tom Tuttle]

Even though I started calling my Granites whitesided (I dont even remember where I got that from, but I did get it from another breeder) I agree they are better called Pied sided Granites. But the real question is, how do we tell the two lines apart? (McDonalds line vs SMR's)
And just for fun, I will attempt a cross with one of my Pied Granites to a W/S rat.....just to see what happens.
And none of my Pied Granites have delevoped any coloration whatsoever in the pied markings (just for the record)

I wanted to add, all my lines (both Granite and Bloods) that ended up with Pied in them came from Bayou stock.

Thanks for the additional information. I've been asked several times what line the W/S (Pied sided) Granites & Blood animals I got from you are related to.

 

[Austin M]

I would say pied-sided!

When I hear pied-sided corn I think piebald ball pythons. A piebald ball python has random patches of white on it's body. A pied-sided corn has random patches of white on it's sides. Since these patches of white on the sides of corns are random and randomly "big" or "little" I think pied-sided fits.

I agree that the since the white sided name has been used for a true recessive gene in other rats the name "white sided" should be reserved for a true simple recessive trait in corns as well.

 

[Tom Tuttle]

The main reason I called them pied-sided was due (in part) to forward thinking. If you look at white-sided anything (blood pythons, bull snakes, rat snakes, king snakes, etc.), you notice they're white-sided from neck to tail. While I agree it's difficult to apply pie bald or pied to what we see in the superior examples of the bloods, some actually have very little white on their sides, AND not all of them have white scales on the face. If the ghost blood Zorro has is an example of what we can expect from the anery types each and every time, they may well deserve the name white-sided. If however, the delineation between dorsal markings and the white sides is not clear and constant, I think we should hold off calling that a white-sided. In other words, if some have the white laterally from neck to tail and others do not, we should save the name white-sided for the mutation that is surely going to show itself someday, just like the gene in the other serpent species.

Compared this better-than-average example of a p/s blood, note how consistant the white sides are on the other species shown; black rat, Brook's king, and bull. As you can see, on this p/s blood example, the white randomly and variably starts and stops in different places from specimen to specimen. Unlike true white-sided serpents, my line displays disjunct zones or patches of white, although they are almost always connected to the white of the ventor. Also, note that compared to the white-sided serpents, there is no clear dorso-lateral delineation between the white and red. White-sided is a slightly variable mutation, but it's either ON or OFF. You seldom (if ever) see it stop and start up again. In short, your mental expectation when you hear the phrase white-sided corn should be a corn snake with a relatively straight margined lateral zone of white, parallel to the zone of dorsal and dorso-lateral markings above it.

There WILL be a completely white-sided corn snake. It's not a matter of IF, but WHEN. If Michelle's mutation in the aneries is consistent (all specimens having the lateral white from neck to tail) AND if it is not genetically linked to anery types, it is exciting to think that this is the white-sided mutation we seek. If not, when that first ON/OFF white-sided corn makes it debut, I hope the name that is most applicable for that mutation is safely waiting for it, so we don't have another renaming nightmare in this industry. Like the white-sided gene in the other serpent species, when we get it in corns, it won't be linked to another color mutation. It will be convertable to all colors and patterns of corns. It's early in the game, but it appears that the p/s gene is linked exclusively to bloods. I hope future breeding trials prove that to be wrong.

Ok so we reserve white sided for later use.

We've been working so hard to make the perfect bloodred compounds (cleanest sides) that we could be seeing that there is a fine line between the perfect bloodred type AND white sidedness. After all, the mechanism that fades the sides of superior normally colored bloods may manifest itself in the anery types as sides that LOOK white-sided, but are actually just the reduction or absence of melanin. I know that sounds like the same thing, but it's probably not. I keep hearing from breeders that the white on the sides of the anery types is not predictable in Mendelian fashion. Someone out there knows more about it than I, but I don't think white on snakes and absence of pigment are caused by precisely the same genetic mechanism. :shrugs: Are these dark corns losing their side patterns AND color or are they truly white-sided mutants?

I don't get over here much, so perhaps this subject has come up before. It's just that recently, we're seeing more and more pewters and anery bloods that have the white-sided look (the genetic mechanics of which seem more polygenic than Mendelian). Until someone finitely proves the heritable nature of the white sides on the anery types, we could be seeing a pseudo white-sided effect. This is why I caution folks to call these white-sided until we discover if it's polygenic or recessive AND if it is linked only to the darker bloodred compounds. I've seen smattering of white on the sides of anery bloods and pewters for many years. Only recently am I seeing examples that have more and more of it; some to the point of APPEARING white-sided. Are they mimics of the gene or the same recessive mutation seen in many other serpent species? :shrugs:

Ok Now is it white sided or Pied sided?

I would say pied-sided!

When I hear pied-sided corn I think piebald ball pythons. A piebald ball python has random patches of white on it's body. A pied-sided corn has random patches of white on it's sides. Since these patches of white on the sides of corns are random and randomly "big" or "little" I think pied-sided fits.

I agree that the since the white sided name has been used for a true recessive gene in other rats the name "white sided" should be reserved for a true simple recessive trait in corns as well.

Now which name are we going to use?:shrugs:

 

[torsten]

My Vote goes for Pied Sided.

 

[Camby]

Breeders Right

Pied-sided is accurate and correct so why debate it? The "anomaly" does not appear on the sides and so far it appears it will remain on the laterals.

Besides, good or bad, doesn't the originator of the trait typically name the morph?

dc

 

[Vinman]

Piedsided got my vote

 

[ForkedTung]

Pied-sided is accurate and correct so why debate it? The "anomaly" does not appear on the sides and so far it appears it will remain on the laterals.

dc

I agree! It has pied markings and they are on the side, what more is there to say other than the sides are not white ( they are speckled white, hence pied)

 

[KJUN]

I would say pied-sided!

When I hear pied-sided corn I think piebald ball pythons. A piebald ball python has random patches of white on it's body. A pied-sided corn has random patches of white on it's sides. Since these patches of white on the sides of corns are random and randomly "big" or "little" I think pied-sided fits.

I agree that the since the white sided name has been used for a true recessive gene in other rats the name "white sided" should be reserved for a true simple recessive trait in corns as well.

Which is why Don used that term to describe these. PLUS, when you tell almost any experienced herper "pied-sided," they tend to get (usually, anyway) a very accurate mental image of the appearance of this morph before ever seeing it. THAT is what makes it a good name in my book. Plus, I agree that the originator has some serious strength in determining the name of any particular morph.

KJ

 

[Vinman]

good post I hope I can produce more of them this year