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Please Help: Snake with Possible Broken Vertebrae

Lyreiania

Lyreiania

New member
Hello all...
Im at a loss here and any and all advice would be extremely welcome. The day before yesterday I noticed a bi-lateral swelling about one half down the length of my snakes body (snake is a 6 foot long rat snake hybrid, about 13 years old, Ive had him since he was a baby). Yesterday it was still there, so I took him to my vet, who is a reptile specialist. X Rays show a possible broken or dislocated vertebrae. My veterinarian is not a radiologist so he is sending the films to one so they can be properly interpreted. I dont know when the results will be in.

I have no idea how this happened. To the best of my knowledge he did not fall, nor did anything fall on him, and he certainly hasnt been mishandled. He does work with a belly dancer and she did use him in a show before I noted this, but he was NOT mishandled during the event.

Hes in his aquarium, a 135 gallon enclosure, all curled up, quite still, barely moves when I check to make sure if he is OK (alive). Of course Im not moving him.

Has anyone ever had this happen? What will his prognosis be? Any advice or help here will be VERY welcome; (should he be splinted? CAN a snake be splinted? Should he be in that large cage but I dont want to move him considering the possible dx of a fractured vertebrae) I love all my pets and Im horrified that he was injured so inexplicably. I cant prevent in the future if I dont know what happened!

Thanks alot in advance,
Sincerely,
Susan
PS: he ate normally Oct 1st, (4 large mice) he is to be fed Oct 15th, we shall see what he eats or doesnt eat.
 
OMGosh, I haven't a shred of experience with anything like that, but I am sending you the very best wishes for the improvement/health of your poor snake. I'm wondering if there was a birth deformity in his spine that you weren't aware of? I mean, I'm sure most people don't just x-ray their snakes with a routine physical, right, so how would one know? I'm hoping the poor guy isn't in a lot of pain. How long before you'll get the radiology results back? Did the vet offer any chance of correcting the issue?

Very best of luck to you. Please keep us posted. ((((Hugs))))
 
Hi Lori...
Id never seen anything like that before on him; if it was congenital youd think Id would have been aware of it years ago. However, it doesnt seem to HURT him, when the vet palpated it he didnt pull away or show aggression or make any move I would call indicative of pain or discomfort. And at the vet I did see him move his body BELOW the area, so maybe he doesnt have nerve damage. Im just so upset that my snake was hurt so mysteriously. I want him to be OK, and hope he will heal completely.
Thanks for the good thoughts,
Sincerely
Susan
 
One of my Corns suffered some horrible crush injuries to his spine and ribs. I couldn't explain them until I came home one day and found that he was trying to jam himself in between the tiny gap of the sliding glass doors (full grown Corn -> 3 millimetre gap = you do the math!).

He still has a stomach-churningly distorted skeletal structure in his top third, but a few years on shows no sign of discomfort at all, is perfectly happy to be handled and eats like a champ (needless to say he's in a top-opening viv now!). My vet reckoned that as long as there was no sign of paralysis, then he'd be fine and would heal without intervention - and this has proven true.

They really can do the most ridiculous things to themselves.

In your case, I doubt that he could be splinted, but then he may not need to be. As long as he's able to move about and eat, then he could well be fine - just a bit lumpy from now on.

Make sure that he has nothing higher than a piece of cork bark in his tank, just in case you too have a kamikaze stunt snake!

Keep us posted on what the radiographer and vet say - good luck.
 
Hi Bitsy and all...
Thanks for your replies. Ive still not gotten the report from the radiologist; truthfully that annoys me. I called my vet today, they are to call me back. On the good side, when I fed him 10/16, he ate his 4 large mice and a few days later have a normal stool. However (I havent been holding him of course) he moves...odly. I dont know if there is neurological damage. I cant quite explain the oddity either. I am still worried about my guy. What if the X Rays show something that needs care? But then again, in broken ribs on a person, there is no real treatment; a snake essentially is a huge ribcage...but if its his back, I dont know what can be done, if anything. CAN a snake with a broken back have a few vertebrae fused together surgically as humans do?

I will continue the updates...
Sincerely,
Susan
 
bitsy said:
They really can do the most ridiculous things to themselves.
Click to expand...

No truer statement.... Unbelievable the things they get into or try to get out of.

Good to hear that he's eating/pooping well, a good sign for sure. I hope you hear from your vet soon....

Tonya
 
Although I have no direct experience like this, I have heard of snakes with spine injuries recovering. I hope things turn out well for your old guy. Keep us updated on what the vet and radiologist say.
 
Hello all...
An update on my poor snake. He DOES indeed have a fracture of his spine; I am really so upset at not knowing HOW he did this. He is in his cage, and of course Im not handling him or moving him at all. He, however, doesnt seem to realize he has a severe injury and is moving around his cage and scaring the heck out of me in the process.

I suppose thats a good sign. I wish hed stay still, though.

I took out many of the cage decorations (climbing sticks). I found a big box and put it in his tank and hes happily curled there, he hasnt seemed interested in his old hiding place since the injury. Maybe its too small for him now, he certainly has not coiled as tightly as once he did.

Im waiting for the X Rays; my vet said hed email me them. I will post it here of course for anyone to look at and opine as they wish.

Thats it for now...they are all due to be fed on the 31st and I will write again then with his diet or lack of it.

Sincerely,
Lyre
 
Hi Nanci....
Thats such a good question!! Part of my frustration is the total lack of anything I can DO to help him in healing.

My vet said to leave him in his cage, disturbing him as little as possible. Only touching/ moving to clean.

In 6 weeks, he will be Re X RAYed to see if healing of the bones has occured.

I know in a human, bones broken and unset will heal, in the unset position. I guess thats all I can hope for...Dr Raiti said snakes are not splinted, and as far as I know they are not operated upon like humans are if their spines are fractured (vertebral fusion). I asked about calcium supplements, he said none were needed as the mice he eats have plenty of calcium in their bones.

My vet. is a reptile specialist; I have to assume he knows what he is talking about. But if any of you have any ideas I will be more than willing to try em.

Sincerely,
Susan
 
Well, I had a pigeon break his leg (an he only has one leg!) and the vet didn't splint it or pin it or anything- he was just on cage rest.
 
I had a one and a half year old snake get an injury from an over excited puppy to see the snake on the floor. It was unfortunate, really broke my heart. And my daughter was mortified. The snakes back "looked" broken to me and she moved rather funny. I took her to the vet who told me that there is nothing she can do, to put it on 'cage rest'. That happened over a year ago and it's hard to tell that there is anything wrong with her today... it was shocking how well she healed. I always felt that as long as she ate, drank and pooped? She was fine. And she is. :D

Look, if they can't splint it and your snake is eating well... what is the point of another xray??

Good luck with your snake.... !!

-Tonya
 
Wild Racers, Speckled Kings, Ribbons, and Black Rats

When I was young, I used to herp in woods and creeks liberally interspersed in heavily farmed country. Bush-hogs, hay-bailers, cows, wild pigs, deer, coyotes,...all heck on snakes. I have caught at least one of each of the four listed above with a healed injury that must have brought death near. Broken backs healed slightly twisted, slightly displaced upwards, to the left, or to the right. Some healed at a really clumsy-looking longitudinal angle. Some that even looked like the snake had been...maybe...pulled or stretched or longitudinally dislocated somehow.
So I did a little research at the time (late 1970's/early 80's--I know y'all would like some references...sorry), and snakes (like many reptiles in general) have an amazing capacity to survive and heal from, yes, a broken back. What is limp and dragged around will in time heal and be fully functional. (Have even seen alligators with very mangled tails living to a ripe old giant dangerous age.)
I guess this might relate to distant cousins growing tails back after ejecting them.
One would think this area would be a subject of research (and likely has been). "Healing" of spinal cord injuries, once studied, could improve the quality of life for a lot of people. (Truly I have googled nothing....but am going to as soon as I finish typing this.)

So...pamper your baby, and let him/her heal. (We humans all get scars, broken bones, and a little arthritis as we get older--but we're still the same people.)
Good Luck.
 
P.S. on "pain"

Reptiles and amphibians don't experience touch or temperature sensation the way we do. They don't feel cold the way we do, or heat the way we do. It is my understanding that they don't feel pain the way we do either. I once caught a Western Ribbon Snake feeding on minnows in a creek--that a bush-hog had cut in two. Just anterior to the anal vent. Kind of swollen down there, and sure to bring on eventual physical death...but the ribbon snake didn't seem to distracted from his focus on the minnows by the fact that he'd essentially been cut in half at some point over the last couple of days.
 
Hello Tonya and Vestusvates (Eric)
Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. I would re X Ray him only to know that it was safe once again to hold him, to take him out of his cage and pet him and have him be petted by others. Hes done a bit of animal modeling and has made a pretty damn good living for a reptile. Hes also very used to alot of affection; now I am scared even to touch him.

Eric, what you said about snake injuries also made me feel LOTS better. I can still see the lump on his back, and its quite prominent though it appears unchanged. I am worried about him, and I hope he heals as well as the snakes you mentioned. He does seem able to move below the level of the injury.

I am worried, and dont know how worried I should be. He was scheduled to eat today, and he only ate ONE large mouse; his normal is four every two weeks. Truthfully, ALL my snakes appetites were off today, ALL of them ate far less than their usual, so I dont know if all the snakes had an off day, or something has gone horridly wrong with my injured boy. On the good side, as yet he hasnt thrown up, its been hours.

Should I be concerned? This is a snake that is pretty far from being thin. Im not new to snakes, Ive had this one over 10 years, but Ive never had an severely injured snake before.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts and words,
Sincerely,
Susan
 
Digestive process

We're all here to help (as many have done for me).
The digestive process, as for all organisms with a forward opening and a rear opening, involves peristaltic muscular movement from anterior to posterior. If your snake's back is broken, 1) his ability to chemically and physically digest may be impaired/slowed by the injury; and 2) a full gullet would probably be very uncomfortable, physicaly stressing/stretching/displacing the injury.
I suspect he is not as active as normal, so he probably doesn't need as many calories. He knows best. His own, I would bet, disinclination toward being extremely active is just what will allow him to heal. The site of the break will likely remain conspicuous for the rest of his life. Just a cosmetic imperfection.
But for more primitive vertebrates, for example cold-blooded ones like snakes, physical resilience is often inversely proportional to specialization, like more sophisticated mammals.
 
vetusvates said:
Reptiles and amphibians don't experience touch or temperature sensation the way we do. They don't feel cold the way we do, or heat the way we do. It is my understanding that they don't feel pain the way we do either.
Click to expand...

For anyone who's caught his snakes tail in the lid may disagree? Is it being captured or pinched? I gotta say my snakes respond very differently to my restraining them to my getting em in the lid.

either way... with my girl I gauged my handling and the duration by her response.

Good Luck!

Tonya
 
I think it is a good sign that he ate at all.

I will continue to send good thoughts for you and your snakie!
 
Actually I'm surprised he ate at all. He could certainly go for weeks/months without having to. That he did, in my opinion is a superb sign. Doubly so--that his injury is not so serious, and that his zeal to hold onto life is strong.
 
Hi Eric, Tonya and Rich...
Im glad you think him eating anything at all is a positive sign. But this is actually his second meal since the injury...it happened Oct 10th. On the 16th he ate his 4 mice, but today he only ate one. Thats why I wonder if it means he has some odd new injury or some such. I know, Im likely being paranoid here but the snake cant tell me what hurts like a human can.

Sincerely,
Susan
 
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