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Political Email

One thing I am amazed at...

How can so many people assume that those who are on welfare/ get benefits for being a minority are lazy bums? Where did you get this perception?

It isn't easy to imagine being raised in such a terrible environment or coming to a country with so little that you really do need help to get you back up on your feet.

Have any of you worked with at-risk inner city youth? Have you worked with the homeless? I have. They are not what you think.

Do not assume that because someone needs help that they are lazy. Many people in homeless shelters are disabled, and many more are single mothers.

As a person who has been privileged because of being born into a great environment and given education, I can only begin to understand what it must be like for those people who from the beginning lack the basics and have to claw their way up.

This country is not "you work hard, you win" for everyone. Have some empathy.
 
TandJ said:
Good luck... The division is set deep.. Divide and conquer.. Something that seems to have run rampant here period..
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Count me in as one of those who don't understand the cryptic messages, Tim.

Are you implying that the expression of differences of opinion and ideologies in a thread clearly labeled "political" is somehow a strong-arm tactic to "divide and conquer"? Exactly who is doing that, and who are being "divided and conquered"?

regards,
jazz
 
I may have missed this further back, but I do have one question for the homosexual population that is currently seeking lawful marriage in the US.

Is it a Civil Union that you are wanting to be recognized for, or is it an actual Marriage as defined and granted within the Christian Church that you are hoping to acquire?
 
Pruddock said:
I may have missed this further back, but I do have one question for the homosexual population that is currently seeking lawful marriage in the US.

Is it a Civil Union that you are wanting to be recognized for, or is it an actual Marriage as defined and granted within the Christian Church that you are hoping to acquire?
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I can't speak for Steph, but given her replies on the issue have pretty much addressed the legalities of the issue, I'd wager that this is the direction she'd be pointing.

Besides, there are already a few denominations within the Christian Church which have recognized same sex marriage.

regards,
jazz
 
Well that was why I asked because I can see where a Civil Union could be wanted for same sex partners who are looking for the same types of tax breaks and legal recognition as a heterosexual married couple. I can also see why they ban it because there are WAY too many people who would see this as an easy ploy to take advantage of and in the long run with investigations it would end up another giant deficit/burden on the federal government.

As for marriage in the Christian Church I know that a select few evangelical denominations have accepted same sex marriage, but I have to ask where your thinking could possibly be? I understand that there are many devoted homosexuals, but it is written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and for the Christian church to be attacked because it won't allow it is quite humorous in my opinion. I have no problem with homosexuals, and I feel that they should be allowed into the church to worship and pray just as any other person, but marriage is a pact that is the act of God's blessing upon two people. It'll never happen.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

It is a sin in God's eye and while I can understand that all people are sinners and that me using the f-word is just as much as sin as homosexual relations, He should not be held to bless such a matrimony. That said, I want to reiterate that I do believe that we should both be allowed to enter a Church, worship, and pray for forgiveness for our sins.
 
Pruddock said:
As for marriage in the Christian Church I know that a select few evangelical denominations have accepted same sex marriage, but I have to ask where your thinking could possibly be? I understand that there are many devoted homosexuals, but it is written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and for the Christian church to be attacked because it won't allow it is quite humorous in my opinion. I have no problem with homosexuals, and I feel that they should be allowed into the church to worship and pray just as any other person, but marriage is a pact that is the act of God's blessing upon two people. It'll never happen.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

It is a sin in God's eye and while I can understand that all people are sinners and that me using the f-word is just as much as sin as homosexual relations, He should not be held to bless such a matrimony. That said, I want to reiterate that I do believe that we should both be allowed to enter a Church, worship, and pray for forgiveness for our sins.
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This is what bugs me the most.
You can believe what you want but please do not bring up the whole "homosexuals are sinners" crap.
Doesn't the bible also say that snakes are the devil? Devoted religious people are one of the most arrogant jerks out there, not saying you are one, but this statement shows it, however you want it to sound.
 
Pruddock said:
Well that was why I asked because I can see where a Civil Union could be wanted for same sex partners who are looking for the same types of tax breaks and legal recognition as a heterosexual married couple. I can also see why they ban it because there are WAY too many people who would see this as an easy ploy to take advantage of and in the long run with investigations it would end up another giant deficit/burden on the federal government.

As for marriage in the Christian Church I know that a select few evangelical denominations have accepted same sex marriage, but I have to ask where your thinking could possibly be? I understand that there are many devoted homosexuals, but it is written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and for the Christian church to be attacked because it won't allow it is quite humorous in my opinion. I have no problem with homosexuals, and I feel that they should be allowed into the church to worship and pray just as any other person, but marriage is a pact that is the act of God's blessing upon two people. It'll never happen.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

It is a sin in God's eye and while I can understand that all people are sinners and that me using the f-word is just as much as sin as homosexual relations, He should not be held to bless such a matrimony. That said, I want to reiterate that I do believe that we should both be allowed to enter a Church, worship, and pray for forgiveness for our sins.
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Wow, the bible, well try this one on Matthew 22: 36-40.
 
The Christian religion is not the only religion in the world to define a "union" between two people. It wasn't even the first. So, what is the issue of using the word "marriage" as opposed to "civil union"?
The Bible was not written in English. So there for you can't claim that the Christian god used the exact term "marriage" for his religion's version of "civil union".

So, it looks like you are saying America you should have to be Christian to be married? Am I reading this argument correctly?

Many other religious institutions accept gay marriage, if you are married by a non-christian church, should it be then a "civil union"?
 
Pruddock said:
Well that was why I asked because I can see where a Civil Union could be wanted for same sex partners who are looking for the same types of tax breaks and legal recognition as a heterosexual married couple. I can also see why they ban it because there are WAY too many people who would see this as an easy ploy to take advantage of and in the long run with investigations it would end up another giant deficit/burden on the federal government.

As for marriage in the Christian Church I know that a select few evangelical denominations have accepted same sex marriage, but I have to ask where your thinking could possibly be? I understand that there are many devoted homosexuals, but it is written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and for the Christian church to be attacked because it won't allow it is quite humorous in my opinion. I have no problem with homosexuals, and I feel that they should be allowed into the church to worship and pray just as any other person, but marriage is a pact that is the act of God's blessing upon two people. It'll never happen.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

It is a sin in God's eye and while I can understand that all people are sinners and that me using the f-word is just as much as sin as homosexual relations, He should not be held to bless such a matrimony. That said, I want to reiterate that I do believe that we should both be allowed to enter a Church, worship, and pray for forgiveness for our sins.
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As you said yourself, everyone is a sinner in some form. I personally, would rather be a sinner by loving and caring for someone of the same sex (I'm not a homosexual, but it makes more sense to me), as opposed to being a sinner that is married to a woman, but commits adultery and beats his wife. Or a sinner that is rude, unkind and commits crimes. I'm an athiest so I'll side with logic as opposed to the rules of faith.

In my opinion, there's no proof that people go to Heaven or Hell when they die, so why should you completely restrict the short time you have on this World, only to think you're going to enjoy another life when you die? :shrugs:
You should enjoy life as it is and not try to be a good person in God's eyes, or so you can be admitted to Heaven, but be a good person because that's the right thing to do, as it makes life easier for everyone.

All the best

David
 
Pruddock said:
Well that was why I asked because I can see where a Civil Union could be wanted for same sex partners who are looking for the same types of tax breaks and legal recognition as a heterosexual married couple. I can also see why they ban it because there are WAY too many people who would see this as an easy ploy to take advantage of and in the long run with investigations it would end up another giant deficit/burden on the federal government.
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Why is possible "fraud" a reason to ban gay civil unions? The government doesn't currently investigate all the loveless, sexless, unfaithful, hateful, abusive unions that are already sanctioned? Why should the opportunities for this kind of "fraud" be available only to heterosexual couples? If the government has the right to use a specific definition of marriage to determine WHO can get legally married, then they should be forced to enforce the terms of the definition and either legally dissolve marriages that don't comply with the terms or punish those who stray outside of the defined parameters. Of course, I don't believe that they should have the right to determine either of these things.

As for marriage in the Christian Church I know that a select few evangelical denominations have accepted same sex marriage, but I have to ask where your thinking could possibly be? I understand that there are many devoted homosexuals, but it is written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and for the Christian church to be attacked because it won't allow it is quite humorous in my opinion. I have no problem with homosexuals, and I feel that they should be allowed into the church to worship and pray just as any other person, but marriage is a pact that is the act of God's blessing upon two people. It'll never happen.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

It is a sin in God's eye and while I can understand that all people are sinners and that me using the f-word is just as much as sin as homosexual relations, He should not be held to bless such a matrimony. That said, I want to reiterate that I do believe that we should both be allowed to enter a Church, worship, and pray for forgiveness for our sins.
Click to expand...

The goverment should ONLY be in the business of civil unions. And religious institutions should ONLY be in the business of holy matrimony, however they define it. Individuals should decide what they want to call the unions they participate in. Two hetero atheists should be able to call their civil union a marriage. Two heteros who never get a legal civil union should be able to call their relationship a marriage. Two atheist homosexuals should be able to call their civil union a marriage without regard to the fact that certain churches wouldn't recognize it as such. I'm uncomfortable with the government using Christian scripture as a basis for civil union. For the love of Zeus, it's 2008!
 
Oh mercy I don't check in a while, now the thread has gone from one group to another. I wonder why I don't like these political threads?
I just don't even see the point anymore. This will go in circles and die down and then one person or another will go start a new one in a few weeks and start the whole cycle over again. I truly appreciate the efforts of Snake Dave, Jazz and others who have the patience to keep on trying.
I'm not so emotional that I can't handle it or so easily hurt that my sensitive psyche is all scarred or whatever, just profoundly disappointed.
To the people who are breeders, let me address this to your wallets since your hearts apparently cannot be reached. Try to look at it from a business point of view. That gay hippie Mexican could be your next customer!
 
Pruddock, see my first post in this thread where I explained my position quite clearly. Dean (thanks, Dean) has now restated it in another way.

If you want to allow us civil unions (instead of civil marriages) that have the same 900-1000 federal rights and privileges that civil marriage has, fine. Though I'd doubt that it would end up being equal, since we've already seen that separate but equal is inherently unequal. But we'll take what we can get.

I don't give a flying you know what what churches want to do. Funnily, there are currently homosexual marriages that are recognized by certain Christian denominations in the U.S., but none recognized by the government. Which, incidentally, illustrates my point perfectly. The two institutions should be separate. Churches can think whatever they want of homosexual and interracial marriage. The government should only think about allowing the rights that it grant in marriage to everyone.

And lastly, why on earth would anyone be any more inclined to enter a homosexual civil marriage "fraudulently" than they are inclined to enter a heterosexual marriage "fraudulently?" Those 900-1000 legal rights and privileges can be tricky to undo--just ask anyone who's been divorced.

But they are also not unimportant. The government allows you to inherit your half of the house from your wife tax-free. Not so for me. Though she can will it to me, I have to pay taxes on it when I get it. For lots of couples, that would mean that the survivor couldn't afford to keep living in it. That's a big deal for older couples, obviously. Then, there are around 999 more rights we don't have, either. But I have to go hear Richard Dawkins give a lecture, so I'm out.
 
shed'n my skin said:
Oh mercy I don't check in a while, now the thread has gone from one group to another. I wonder why I don't like these political threads?
I just don't even see the point anymore. This will go in circles and die down and then one person or another will go start a new one in a few weeks and start the whole cycle over again. I truly appreciate the efforts of Snake Dave, Jazz and others who have the patience to keep on trying.
I'm not so emotional that I can't handle it or so easily hurt that my sensitive psyche is all scarred or whatever, just profoundly disappointed.
To the people who are breeders, let me address this to your wallets since your hearts apparently cannot be reached. Try to look at it from a business point of view. That gay hippie Mexican could be your next customer!
Click to expand...

I'm not a breeder or anything but that is a very good point never thought of anything like that before
 
shed'n my skin said:
To the people who are breeders, let me address this to your wallets since your hearts apparently cannot be reached. Try to look at it from a business point of view. That gay hippie Mexican could be your next customer!
Click to expand...
At Roy's Reptile Ranch, gay hippie Mexican customers are welcome. But if you're a gay hippie Mexican who mocks bald people, take your business elsewhere. To paraphrase the cinematic Roy Munson: You know what the bible says about mocking bald men-- it's against it. :spinner:

4 Kings 2:23 said:
And he went up from thence to Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, little boys came out of the city and mocked him, saying: Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And looking back, he saw them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord: and there came forth two bears out of the forest, and tore of them two and forty boys.
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shed'n my skin said:
Oh mercy I don't check in a while, now the thread has gone from one group to another. I wonder why I don't like these political threads?
I just don't even see the point anymore. This will go in circles and die down and then one person or another will go start a new one in a few weeks and start the whole cycle over again. I truly appreciate the efforts of Snake Dave, Jazz and others who have the patience to keep on trying.
I'm not so emotional that I can't handle it or so easily hurt that my sensitive psyche is all scarred or whatever, just profoundly disappointed.
To the people who are breeders, let me address this to your wallets since your hearts apparently cannot be reached. Try to look at it from a business point of view. That gay hippie Mexican could be your next customer!
Click to expand...

The verbal diarrhea and blatant twisting of ideas that this thread has become is disgusting. I knew that certain people would twist this thread into something it was not particularly intended, and quite honestly it took about 10 posts before I was accused of my horrible views. I thought I made it perfectly clear in my post that those were NOT my words, but rather was something that was emailed to me that I was simply re-posting.

But instead, I've been told I can join the KKK as it's a white Christian group, that I'm a bigot, sexist, racist, etc. A bunch of people in this thread saw the text in the OP and made their own assumptions out of it.

Quite honestly there is nothing inflammatory in that OP. And nothing in that OP would suggest that anyone agreeing with it is bigoted, racist, sexist, or a member of a white supremacist group. All of those comments have been tossed at a variety of people who happen to agree with some of the comments in the OP. Funny though, I really haven't seen anybody that agrees with some/all of the OP name call. But then again I'm sure someone will scour all 150+ posts to find something that can be perceived as name calling or inflammatory.

This is a forum, and yes it's about cornsnakes. This sub-section is general chit chat. If you are so horribly upset about a heated political discussion you simply do not have to open the thread, nor do you have to respond or contribute. Nobody in this thread should be chastised because they have responded or contributed with their opinion.

Jen--none of the above is specifically referenced to you, but rather to all participants in this thread thusfar. But I have to ask---you posted an almost identical post much earlier in the thread....so if you felt like this thread was going nowhere---why keep posting in it? Other than to thank Dale, Dave and the others who have the patience to keep trying.....trying to do what, I might ask? Change the opinions of others that you don't agree with?

And as far as a gay hippie Mexican being my next customer.....I'd do business with Stephen any day of the week. :rofl:
 
Joejr, why are my posts the only ones you are responding to or addressing when I am obviously not the only one here who disagrees with the OP? Is it because I have expressed my distate for people using this forum to discuss politics? And how is that any less general a chit chat than anything else non corn snake relative? And yes I do know the OP is not your own words. But you chose it and you posted it. I have every right that you do to express myself here.
 
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