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Rat cruelty?

Kilala

Kilala

lemme go! I'm sleeping!
Hey, everyone. I have yet another dilemma.

My baby corn, Darwin, is growing like a weed. For those of you who remember my other threads concerning him, I've managed to convert him to f/t food. and he's on small fuzzies now. but he still won't take food without rat blood smeared on it. after i do that, he takes it so hard that i have to be careful not to drop the tongs lol! It's been getting expensive to squeeze blood out f/t rats. I was wondering if I could just get a "pet" rat, and take a little blood with a syringe (and where would I get the syringe?) when I need it.

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if this would count as animal cruelty. I'm sure many of you know my bad luck with snake-fearing neighbors. well it just got worse. A young couple moved in across the street. Upon learning from the other neighbors (who I've managed to convert into not-snake-fearing-but-not-yet-snake-loving-people) that I breed mice for snake food (and the fact that I keep reptiles in captivity, lol) the couple has informed me that they are members of the animal liberation front. the woman said to me, "I really hope there aren't any acts of animal cruelty going on." I told her no. she and her husband just gave me this creepy look. Needless to say, I bought a security system. But my boyfriend is worried that they will learn about the rat. He's gotten great by the way. Loves herps as much as I do now. read my "new leopard gecko" thread to hear about his background. He's worried that they will bomb my house or something. He has a relative that had a nasty encounter with the animal liberation front. The good news is it was an excuse to have him move in, lol. :crazy02:

But any thoughts on the subject? I'm really scared, any imput would be greatly appreciated.
 
I would say that it would be rat cruelty.
Rats are really really intelligent and social. They are MUCH happier and healthier with a companion. And the more affection you show them, the more they give back. Animal expert Jack Hanna has stated that rats are the closest to a pet dog that you will find in a small animal.

I would break a frozen rat in 2, and use it for scenting the mice.
 
Well could I treat it as a pet (you know, play with it and give it toys and stuff), give it a companion and rotate the two? I've been doing the frozen rat thing and it's getting ridiculous, almost completely wasting a prey item like that. Plus, what's wrong with drawing a little blood? I need less than a quarter teaspoon per feeding. the frozen rats can only be used once, because they go bad. and if I rotated the rats, it wouldn't be so bad, would it?

and any advice on what to do about the animal liberation front that's scaring me to death?
 
I HATE those extremists, and am really lucky I have never had to deal with them so I really have no advice to give you there. I have to admit I am a bit bias when it comes to rats. Besides cornsnakes, they are my favorite animal on earth, even better than dogs! I have one on my shoulder right now bruxing his little heart out!
I think there are worse things you could do, but rats have very little blood in them. Do you know how to safely draw blood?

A frozen rat snapped in half can be used over and over again for scenting. Don't thaw it, just rub the mouse in the body cavity.

Years ago I had a gray banded king that needed his mice scented with fence lizard. That method worked great for me and the frozen lizard lasted for many feedings.
 
Why don't you just cut up one frozen rat pup into a bunch of pieces, and thaw a little piece every time you need to scent a mouse?
 
Why don't you just feed him rat pinkies? If he is big enough to eat fuzzies, then he can probably handle f/t rat pinks. You should try that.
 
As a fellow rat owner lover, yes I would have to say that is cruel. BUT like the others said, the broken in half F/T will work much better!! And no harm done to anyone :-D
 
something tells me, most rats aren't going to sit still to have blood drawn and most of those rats have teeth, many have big teeth. Someone is going to be hurt and I don't guess it will always be mr. rat, lol. Plus I am very doubtful that it will work...go for the rat pinks. I mean the only other way would be to kill a rat, drain it off all it's blood and freeze the blood in tiny little amounts that you could thaw individually. But that to me just makes us snake owners as weird as everyone thinks we are. LOL, get the pinks, it will work alot better.
 
hartsock said:
something tells me, most rats aren't going to sit still to have blood drawn and most of those rats have teeth, many have big teeth. Someone is going to be hurt and I don't guess it will always be mr. rat, lol. Plus I am very doubtful that it will work...go for the rat pinks. I mean the only other way would be to kill a rat, drain it off all it's blood and freeze the blood in tiny little amounts that you could thaw individually. But that to me just makes us snake owners as weird as everyone thinks we are. LOL, get the pinks, it will work alot better.
Click to expand...

True, an unsocialized hormonal fearful rat WILL bite. But one that has been socialized and isn't nursing a litter or terribly afriad won't bite. They are squirmy however. My vet always needs an assistant when she sees them because hyperactive rats are like teeny tiny greased pigs!

I brought my crew in for a mite treatment on Wednesday, injections of ivermectin, and one of mine squeaked (yelled) at the vet. Other than that they were very well behaved.
 
starsevol said:
True, an unsocialized hormonal fearful rat WILL bite. But one that has been socialized and isn't nursing a litter or terribly afriad won't bite. They are squirmy however. My vet always needs an assistant when she sees them because hyperactive rats are like teeny tiny greased pigs!

I brought my crew in for a mite treatment on Wednesday, injections of ivermectin, and one of mine squeaked (yelled) at the vet. Other than that they were very well behaved.
Click to expand...

well, I guess if you have them, you know from experience. I just wonder if even a rat that has been "petified" (my word, lol) will take to having blood drawn every week. I mean, once they start to associate needle with pain, I would think they are going to put up more of a fight.
 
Rats have few pain receptors in their skin. If the needle is followed by yummy treats like banana slices or scrambled egg, some might look forward to the needle! I know that if medications are in order, over time it gets easier and easier to give them.
 
Thank you everyone. Especially you, starsevol. My boyfriend just came home with a trio of female rats from a breeder, I might as well use them. My aunt is a vet, she can show me how to safely draw blood. They're actually quite cute. I breed mice, and I never really get attached to the breeders. But..wow these rats are smart. One is solid black, another is a black-eyed white, and the last is a really pretty grey. I'll rotate them, don't worry. These girls must be from show stock, because they're huge! I'll think of names later. Starsevol, you're right, they are just like dogs! I have the grey one in my lap right now. They're getting loads of love and treats. They're so cute, I might not be able to take their blood! lol
 
It is really difficult to get enough blood from a rat for blood tests, etc - my vet has only ever been able to get enough for me as an aside when doing surgery. The veins are really hard to get at as they're so small, and the easiest way to get blood is through the tail which IS very painful for the animal.
 
Why are you insisting on continuing with the idea of drawing blood from live rats? You've been given several safe and humane alternatives and as toyah mentioned, you are NOT going to be able to get blood from a rat on a weekly basis without causing fear and pain. I've been a veterinary technician for over 25 years and draw blood samples from dogs and cats a minimum of 10 times a day. Luckily, I've never had to get blood from a rat, but I can GUARANTEE it won't be easy or pleasant. I HAVE obtained blood from several other exotic species, including birds from parakeet to golden eagle size, various farm animals, an adult iguana, tortoises and a fox.

Reconsider the whole idea. Trust me. But if go ahead with it, we want a video as I need a really good laugh.
 
Kilala said:
the couple has informed me that they are members of the animal liberation front. the woman said to me, "I really hope there aren't any acts of animal cruelty going on."
Click to expand...

Wow. I would I replied, "...and I'm a member of the NRA, GOA, JPFO, and SAF. You aren't allowed on my property, and any invasion by you will be considered criminal trespassing." Of course, that wouldn't have been our first experience with ALF. My wife works with biomedical research and vaccine development and testing. :)

I don't think the live rat is a good idea, though. Not because of ALF - screw them. They are terrorists, and you shouldn't not do something out of fear of them. (They win if you let them use those tactics.) I just think it would be a very slow way to kill a rat, and it'd be a pain for you since you obviously have no experience bleeding small rodents.

I think a better option would be to buy one large rat, and exanguinate it. You can get a LOT of blood from one rat. ...and it isn't "cruel" because you can KILL it and then immediately bleed it once it is dead. IMMEDIATELY collect the blood. Freeze the blood, and "chip"some off at feeding time!

....or have you tried keeping one rat pink or fuzzy in the freezer and cutting a piece of skin off of it with a razor blade while it is frozen. Place the skin piece on the head of the thawed mouse and offer that to your snake. If you dampen the head of the mouse a LITTLE, the skin will stick. You can use that frozen rat dozens and dozens of times....and I know this from personal experience. That skin stands a good chance of getting your snake to eat it....and it would be cheaper AND easier!

Good luck,
KJ
 
You're right, susan. I've been stubborn. my apologies. I just fed Darwin by rolling a fuzzie in the rat's soiled bedding. These rats are too cute to hurt anyway. I don't think I'd be able to draw their blood. One just stole a cracker from me. And all three of them are munching away on pieces of it. So cute! Again, I apologize for being stubborn!
 
I have to agree, get off the whole rat blood draining, and go with the rat pinks. I had a picky eater that wouldn't eat anything with fur, and once he was eating rat pinks, he was addicted, and even ate rat fuzzys when he was big enough, but he still wouldn't take a mouse. I started defrosting a rat pink and a mouse fuzzy together and would offer both when he was big enough to take the two, and it took only a couple feedings before he would take the mouse too. Now he doesn't care which kind he gets, as long as he gets one...
 
Did he eat the bedding scented fuzzy? If so, then your problem is solved and no rat torture is necessary.
 
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