Red Coat/Red Factor

[NiklasTyreso]

have only done one breeding with the gene. Out of 20 eggs I got 3 positive redcoats and one maybe.

So, how much red colour does the parents have?
You just got 3 red coat in a clutch of 20 eggs?

Then, if both parents are hets and the gene is recessive you chould have got about 25 % redcoat, you should have got about 5 redcoat hatchlings. That is close to your 3 hatchlings, but are the parents just hets?

If the trait is dominant and the parents are hets then 75 % (= 15 hatchlings) should have been redcoat. Then 50 % should have been hets and 25 % had been homo for the trait. That is far from your breeding result, so it is not likely that your animals trait is dominant.

So, if you cross two red coat animals and get just 3 redcoat hatchlings in a clutch of 20 eggs, then it is most likely a polygenetic trait, a trait depending on two or more genes.

 

[Jaded_Heart]

What if your trait is dominant and only one parent is either homo or het, what are the percentages? Just curious

 

[crotalis40741]

So, how much red colour does the parents have?
You just got 3 red coat in a clutch of 20 eggs?

Then, if both parents are hets and the gene is recessive you chould have got about 25 % redcoat, you should have got about 5 redcoat hatchlings. That is close to your 3 hatchlings, but are the parents just hets?

If the trait is dominant and the parents are hets then 75 % (= 15 hatchlings) should have been redcoat. Then 50 % should have been hets and 25 % had been homo for the trait. That is far from your breeding result, so it is not likely that your animals trait is dominant.

So, if you cross two red coat animals and get just 3 redcoat hatchlings in a clutch of 20 eggs, then it is most likely a polygenetic trait, a trait depending on two or more genes.

No it was an anery het amel, hypo stripe to a ultramel redcoat het anery diffused breeding. Only one parent carries the gene. So three maybe four out of 20 is not that bad. No where did I say both parents carried the gene. The father is ALL red I will attach a photo.

 

[Kevin S.]

It looks like her belly has that bleed through Kevin. Real hard to see with the pic.

Interesting, I may have a redcoat strawberry then. I'll see if I can get a better shot of her belly this evening and some pics from above.

 

[Tara80]

Heather's baby there shows the prime example of Red Factor.

I talked to Don and I guess the confusion right now is based on the fact that Joe P. has stated that his 'Red Coat' is displaying as a recessive gene; when the Red Factor (such as Bob's, John's, etc) is clearly showing up as a dominant trait.
So, it's really up in the air right now, based on what JP has said - if it's accurate.
Not sure how much is based on morph combinations, visual acuity and such.

 

[Kevin S.]

Here are new pics from this evening. As you can see, the red coloration is starting to displace the black ventral markings even up onto her neck.

Here's a ventral shot of her mother as a hatchling courtesy of the ACR. Looks like she had a lot of red bleeding into the ventral scales as a youngster too. What do you think, does this seem to be red coat/red factor at work?

 

[chris68]

Bob, I think a good idea would be to pick up a (few ) w/c female(s) to cross him to; I'd love to see comparison progression pics of hatchlings without any other mutation involved.

 

[crotalis40741]

Bob, I think a good idea would be to pick up a (few ) w/c female(s) to cross him to; I'd love to see comparison progression pics of hatchlings without any other mutation involved.

Yeah I have one here, thanks to Autumn. Need prob two more I guess to do it right.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

What if your trait is dominant and only one parent is either homo or het, what are the percentages? Just curious

If the trait is dominant and one parent is normal ant one is het then 50% of hatchlings is also het looking redcoat.

If the trait is dominant and one parent is homo and one is normal, all hatchlings (100%) have redcoat look and are het redcoat.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

Only one parent carries the gene. So three maybe four out of 20 is not that bad. No where did I say both parents carried the gene. The father is ALL red I will attach a photo.

Then I think only one parent carries the trait, but it might be multigenetic.
It is probably not depending on just one single gene.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

I talked to Don and I guess the confusion right now is based on the fact that Joe P. has stated that his 'Red Coat' is displaying as a recessive gene; when the Red Factor (such as Bob's, John's, etc) is clearly showing up as a dominant trait.
So, it's really up in the air right now, based on what JP has said - if it's accurate.
Not sure how much is based on morph combinations, visual acuity and such.

The only way to know is if the breeders publish the percentages in the clutches together with info on if the parents have the trait or not. Then anyone can know.

 

[dave partington]

I have a female from Vinny, she'll be up to size next year, pretty sure she's carrying redcoat or RF or whatever that is, pic 1 and thru an opaque viv to show a bad pic of her belly pic 2.

 

[crotalis40741]

If the trait is dominant and one parent is normal ant one is het then 50% of hatchlings is also het looking redcoat.

If the trait is dominant and one parent is homo and one is normal, all hatchlings (100%) have redcoat look and are het redcoat.

If the trait is truly dominant there would not be het redcoats, like in tesseras either born one or don't carry the gene.

 

[crotalis40741]

I have a female from Vinny, she'll be up to size next year, pretty sure she's carrying redcoat or RF or whatever that is, pic 1 and thru an opaque viv to show a bad pic of her belly pic 2.

She is purdy. I like her

 

[Buzzard]

Crotalis,

Out of the 20 clutch you said 3 look RF/RC. But only one of the parents was confirmed to have RF/RC. All the pics of the snakes I have seen with the gene are amazing but the look aweful Hypo to me as well. My question would be,

Does RF/RC attach to hypo like Ultra(form of hypo) does to Amel? Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in, may not be anything.

Love the thread and eyeballing it everytime I jump on.

 

[Susan]

If the trait is truly dominant there would not be het redcoats, like in tesseras either born one or don't carry the gene.

What NiklasTyreso probably meant is that a parent carrying only one redcoat/red factor gene could be considered "het". If it is dominant, that "het" form would show the trait, but will pass it on to only 50% of the offspring when paired with a non-redcoat/red factor snake. You can still have a homozygous redcoat/red factor snake which shows the trait and all of it's offspring, when paired with a non-redcoat/red factor snake, would show the trait, but "only" be "hets". If this is the case, it might explain a variance in phenotype if the homozygous redcoat/red factor snakes are even much more red in phenotype than one that is only 'het", ie: a "super" form. And it might be more difficult to actually identify some of the "het" redcoat/red factor offspring from some of the normal ones considering normal varience in phenotype (from a breeding of 2 phenotypic redcoat/red factor snakes where both are "hets" resulting in "super"/homozygous offspring, "het" redcoat/red factor offspring, and normal offspring).

 

[crotalis40741]

Crotalis,

Out of the 20 clutch you said 3 look RF/RC. But only one of the parents was confirmed to have RF/RC. All the pics of the snakes I have seen with the gene are amazing but the look aweful Hypo to me as well. My question would be,

Does RF/RC attach to hypo like Ultra(form of hypo) does to Amel? Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in, may not be anything.

Love the thread and eyeballing it everytime I jump on.

Not sure on that, but I can say that the three rf/fc out of the clutch were either amel or ultramel. The one normal male looks really red as well but only time will tell with him. The aneries and the snow look pretty normal except that the aneries are really black and silver and clean looking. I am doing a breeding with a wild caught female this spring to see how it does that way. I would love to do one with a fire or maybe even an amel stripe as well to see how the ratios come out. The female that I did breed to was anery het amel so I don't know if that impacted any of the numbers or not being as there were so many hets involved. The male is also het anery. But from what I saw out of the clutch it more readily attaches to amel and ultra that isn't concrete but just the way it looked here. I am waiting on pics of the red normal male and will post them as soon as I get them. I also kept the one redcoat ultramel female from the clutch to breed back to the father when she is old enough.

 

[crotalis40741]

What NiklasTyreso probably meant is that a parent carrying only one redcoat/red factor gene could be considered "het". If it is dominant, that "het" form would show the trait, but will pass it on to only 50% of the offspring when paired with a non-redcoat/red factor snake. You can still have a homozygous redcoat/red factor snake which shows the trait and all of it's offspring, when paired with a non-redcoat/red factor snake, would show the trait, but "only" be "hets". If this is the case, it might explain a variance in phenotype if the homozygous redcoat/red factor snakes are even much more red in phenotype than one that is only 'het", ie: a "super" form. And it might be more difficult to actually identify some of the "het" redcoat/red factor offspring from some of the normal ones considering normal varience in phenotype (from a breeding of 2 phenotypic redcoat/red factor snakes where both are "hets" resulting in "super"/homozygous offspring, "het" redcoat/red factor offspring, and normal offspring).

Thank you, I really hadn't thought of it that way. Only problem is well for me anyways is the offspring here are only first gen and not old enough for further trials yet. I am in the learn as you go stage with it. The super form for me here will be a bit yet. I wonder with them if there would be a higher percentage of non viable offspring, is there a limit on color when bred too tight and a few other things I want to find out. I would love to do a colab breeding with another rf/rc to shorten the wait time on some of the answers.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

Out of 20 eggs I got 3 positive redcoats and one maybe.

If the redcoat trait depends on two genes and those genes are recessive and one parent is homo for both genes (=redcoat) and one parent is het for both genes then you should get about 25% redcoats in the clutch, like the proportion you got.

Your results might depend on two recessive genes.

 

[crotalis40741]

If the redcoat trait depends on two genes and those genes are recessive and one parent is homo for both genes (=redcoat) and one parent is het for both genes then you should get about 25% redcoats in the clutch, like the proportion you got.

Your results might depend on two recessive genes.

The only problem I see with this is in the breeding I did only one parent carried the gene that I am aware of. I could be wrong for I do not know the complete background on the anery female. I have a couple females other than mine lined up for him this spring so I will be comparing clutch results from each and posting them on here.