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Scales turning white?

ArpeggioAngel

ArpeggioAngel

Around Here Somewhere....
Joe asked me to post this since the photos were taken on my camera....

This is Veyne - she is Joe's '06 female hypo-bloodred.
She has always had a nice rich coloration, but Joe noticed today when he took her out that some of her dorsal scales near her neck seem to be turning white. When he first showed her to me - I thought she had lost some scales somehow - but upon closer inspection - the scales are still there - but they are now white. And it isn't just one or two - it is an entire area of scales.

Has anyone seen this happen before? And if so, any idea what would cause it? If no one has seen it - any idea what may be happening here?

I outlined the area in question...

Veyne2.jpg



Veyne1.jpg
 
Yes, I've seen this before on my female Bloodred after she got tangled up in a wire shelf. When she tried to back out she scraped herself against the wire and it left a mark. After she shed it was gone and she was back to her old bloodred self!
Terri
 
I was going to ask if shes got a low cut hide in her viv, something she is slithering underneath that is rubbing on that part of her and taking the color off.
 
She actually just shed in the last day or two so I would think if this was some kind of "injury" (which it doesn't appear to be in person anyways) that it would've cleared up with the shed some.

This actually looks like the pigment in the scales themselves have changed colors. You can actually see up close some red "tips" on some of the scales that are now white.
 
In the first pic you can really see a decent scale detail, and it definitely looks like the color is washed out here and there. Some parts of the scale are red and the rest pure white.

I think the piebald gene just popped up in your colony. Where did you get her from?
 
I'd take some macro photos of the area in question & some good full body photos. Then see how / if it changes over the next few months...or if other areas of her body start to develop the same look.

Pie-Sided 'ness is evident from hatching. The only other cause of white scales developing after hatching (that I know of) is either an injury, or the calico trait. Calico does have a time delay of 2 to 3yrs before starting to manifest. There are some details & photos in Kathy Loves cornsnake book. Check for small blistering or distortion of the scales, and look for more white after she sheds again. (page 179 in Kathy's book from 2005)
 
Looks like the snake got damages trying to squeeze out of a very tight spot. I've seen that in lots of snakes kept in sliding racks with slightly too large gaps. They force out just so far, and can't get any further. If it doesn't develop over more area, bet on it being damage from something or other. It doesn't really look like "calico," which is good because that is deadly.
KJ
 
I have a bloodred with the same type of scale markings. It doesn't appear to be damaged scales. All my enclosure setups are the same but this is the only corn that has these types of markings. Here's some pics.
 

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Thanks for all the replies.
Vinny - that closeup is exactly what it looks like on Veyne.
She does live in a sterlite tub with lid with a plastic waterbowl/hide that she fits under without "squeezing".

It was suggested to me on another site that someone had another corn with the plastic bowl that had the same thing happen and when a crock was used for water instead that it stopped and reverted back to normal colors.

I don't quite understand though how plastic, or fitting underneath a plastic bowl would cause color change? It isn't damage...I would think if it was damage that the scales would "feel" different or actually look damaged - not just a different color? Can someone explain to me how/why the pigment actually appears to change?
 
I have a 10 month old bloodred that is starting to show similar loss of pigment in some scales. I think Piper is correct in that the most likely cause for the loss of pigment is Calico. During the next shed, look blisters that resemble water blisters and see if any new areas of white form under them.
 
It's not Calico, and there aren't any blisters. The scales are white with red tips. I'll get better pics tomorrow or Monday...
 
Not all calicos form the blisters. Some never even formed the the behavioral problems, and seemed to live out a fairly normal life span. That was why so many breeders TRIED to reproduce that harmful mutation hoping to get a line that had the appearnce of "calico" without the, well, premature death. Nobody was ever able to do it. Some just happened to die from the disease and a rare few didn't.
KJ
 
As an update, it's been two sheds since I removed the plastic dog bowl/hide and placed a crock for water and some paper towels to hide under, and it's almost gone with only a few white scales left... So it would seem it was the plastic... but odd that it's happening in Bloodreds...
 
and a pic...
2008_0731Veyne0010.jpg


You can see where some of the scales are getting their color back, (bottom), with the top section getting better...
 
I'm wondering if, even though he could fit under the dis apparently without rubbing against the sides, if infact it was rubbing just slightly each time he went into his hide, thus the slightly(maybe not to the eye)damage to the scales. It appears as though it's getting much better and that is what leads me to believe it wasn't the plastic pursay, but possible superficial rubbing each time it entered the hide.
 
snakemom1961 said:
I'm wondering if, even though he could fit under the dis apparently without rubbing against the sides, if infact it was rubbing just slightly each time he went into his hide, thus the slightly(maybe not to the eye)damage to the scales. It appears as though it's getting much better and that is what leads me to believe it wasn't the plastic pursay, but possible superficial rubbing each time it entered the hide.
Click to expand...

Actually that was ruled out due to the same large bowls being used in every snakes tub, and this was the only one that showed a change in scale coloration. The Hondos actually lift their bowls up when going underneath...
 
I had this happen in a bloodred as well. Just randomly showed up. After a few sheds it was gone. No idea what caused it. But it wasn't an injury or anything, it was just as yours where they appeared normal, just white.
 
That's odd that it's only happening in bloodreds and that it seems to be happening in the same place on each snake...

I thought I read something a couple of years ago about how it means something if individual scales suddenly develop a white spot in the middle of them, but I can't remember what.... maybe this is a more extreme case?
 
I actually have this happening on my amber stripe female, too. All scales look fine, health is pronounced great by the vet, but all these scales just turned white. So it's not only the bloodreds. My girl does have one of those same plastic dog bowls that VinnyJ mentioned. Incidentally, all of my other snakes (12 total) have that bowl, too, with no loss of coloration in their scales. Maybe the white scales are simply some sort of genetic vulnerability for being sensitive to that sort of plastic? Like an allergy? I'll try a ceramic water bowl and a different hide, then wait to see if it clears up.
IMG_3942 Small.jpegIMG_3954 Small.jpeg
 
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Personally, I've only had this happen with males (no BloodReds btw) during breeding season, that were in tubs that were no more than ~6 inches high. Once I switched those individuals to tubs with some height (12-14 inches) and some branches to climb they all recovered.
 
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