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Severe, Persistent Respiratory Infections - Please Help?

I also wondered about something in the house that could be causing a problem, although it sounds like it took a long time before it started. Is your house very new? Could it have off gassing of building materials (or Chinese drywall, etc) that might affect some animals or people more than others? Could you take the affected snakes to a friend's house in a different neighborhood (where they could be quarantined from other herps, just in case) for a month or two to see if there is any improvement?

You also mentioned that some sort of parasite and arachnid like things were found in the feces. But I don't remember the details. Any news on that, or getting it checked out by a specialist?
 
kathylove said:
I also wondered about something in the house that could be causing a problem, although it sounds like it took a long time before it started. Is your house very new? Could it have off gassing of building materials (or Chinese drywall, etc) that might affect some animals or people more than others? Could you take the affected snakes to a friend's house in a different neighborhood (where they could be quarantined from other herps, just in case) for a month or two to see if there is any improvement?

You also mentioned that some sort of parasite and arachnid like things were found in the feces. But I don't remember the details. Any news on that, or getting it checked out by a specialist?
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Kathy,

We sent fecals out last Friday on Sharra and Argent. They came back negative yesterday. So whatever was originally floating in the fecals from last month is gone now. I will still do another fenbendazole treatment tomorrow...though...

Their symptoms are still the same, lessening and worsening. No change really at all in them.

As far as the house, it was built in 1978 and hasn't been remodeled or anything in at least the last 10. And also, as I said, I keep over 100 snakes in 1 large room and for the past nearly 2 years, these 3 corns are the only ones who have gotten sick :/
 
Just thought I would do a small update, even though there isn't much to say...

All three snakes have been through a full 3 week deworming regiment. It did nothing and changed nothing in their symptoms.

They are all still sneezing, wheezing, and mouth-gaping. However, they seem active, otherwise happy, and are eating with no problems whatsoever. I just don't understand it at all.

The next course of action is they will be getting x-rays this week or next per another vet's recommendation. This should theoretically show if it's a sinus problem or if there's lung tissue damage from a bacterial or fungal infection that is too deep to be cultured by a normal swab culture.

The other course of action was to try them all on a regiment of Fortaz. I have not been able to affordably get ahold of any Fortaz, as it comes only in 10 vial packages for $200+, and my vet doesn't carry it. We are trying to see if we can buy one or two vials from another facility but it isn't looking promising - so that attempt may have to wait until I have the money to buy the medication.

Again, I ask myself, if the RI is that severe - we are going on 4+ months of this nonsense now with 2 of the snakes, over 8 months with one of them - wouldn't they be dead by now?? I just don't understand it at all.

Another vet friend suggested cryptosporidiosis, he said it does not show up on fecals and can present itself as a respiratory problem instead of a GI one. I've personally never heard of this, so thoughts on this suggestion would be appreciated.
 
I read through this thread, and my first thought was also that it was house related. Like people, I imagine some snakes are more sensitive to air quality and environment than others. I did notice something about the timing. You moved in at the end of winter, and your first snake got sick 1 year later. Did you have the heat on in the house over the winter? Maybe whatever set it off was heat related, which would explain why it only showed up after being in the house over the winter.
I hope your snakes get better. If it is environmental, and not a case of the damage already being done, could you move the sick snakes to a friends house for a while to see if the change does them good?
Good luck.
 
Did the snakes that are sick ever come in contact with one another? If not, it seems odd that only they would have a parasite and not any other after such a long period.

Do you have a friend that can house the sick snakes for a month or two? I personally think it is something in your house. Is your house carpeted? If so, lots of particulates come off carpet.

Only 3% of your snakes got sick. This could be an allergy issue. I would seriously try to relocate them to somewhere else. If this helps, I would consider looking into potential issues with your residence. It could potentially be hurting your other snakes or even your own health.
 
Thanks, everyone else has suggested this as well.

I've had the house tested for mold and other problems. There is no carpet. Only hardwood floors.

I have 100 other snakes that have all been perfectly fine so the thought of it being something in the home really doesn't make much sense to me :/

And all of my snakes are housed individually, so none of them have contacted one another, either :/
 
You know how some people are allergic to cats, or dogs but others are not? Maybe this is everyone's thought, those 3 out of 100 snakes are allergic to something in your house that the others are not. The more snakes you have the more chance there is for some to be allergic to something....maybe? It make sense to me because the Dr. where I work is allergic really bad to guinea pigs and no one else that works in the hospital is. So if it is possible to move these three, I would. Because it sounds like, medically, you are running out of options. Good luck with this though.
 
Brian Barczkyk just posted a SnakeBytes TV episode on various illnesses, and respiratory problems was one of them. He had some ideas you might be able to use, including how to make a really nice vaporizer- way better than what I have come up with before...He could probably tell you where to get F 10 (I think it's called) until they start selling it in the US. I think Mike (snakewisperasr) is familiar with treating RIs with that. And I think Elle is, too.
 
Tinkerbeller87 said:
You know how some people are allergic to cats, or dogs but others are not? Maybe this is everyone's thought, those 3 out of 100 snakes are allergic to something in your house that the others are not. The more snakes you have the more chance there is for some to be allergic to something....maybe? It make sense to me because the Dr. where I work is allergic really bad to guinea pigs and no one else that works in the hospital is. So if it is possible to move these three, I would. Because it sounds like, medically, you are running out of options. Good luck with this though.
Click to expand...

You bring up a valid point about the air fresheners and mold and etc and the like - but I would tend to not think this is an allergy thing simply because of :

1) I have hardwood floors
2) I don't use a febreze electrical outlet thing
3) The snake-room is isolated by heavy doors from the rest of the home.
4) The only chemicals I use in the snake room are 10% bleach and KY Jelly, if that even counts.
5) None of the other snakes have gotten ill AT ALL - any other species. The only sick snakes are Anery corn snakes. Maybe it's an anery thing? LoL

However, as I sit here writing this..I am thinking to myself..

Every single one of these snakes was housed, at one point or another, for an extended period of time in a 5 rack system i bought from the company HerpEnclosures about 5 years ago. I had two other large females in this rack and they are problem free, however, they were in and out of it and didn't spend a whole lot of time in there.

This rack system did malfunction at one point right after we moved into the new house and some of the interior material melted. Luckily, it was in a pan that no snake was in and it melted some of the plastic as well as the actual rack around the flexwatt and all so I just threw the whole pan out... Do you think it's possible that some of the vapors/chemicals released during this problem could still be present in that rack system and have caused harmful irritants to the snakes' lungs that are just now manifesting a year later?

ALL of these snakes started exhibiting their symptoms while present in this rack.

Wow. I never thought about this?
 
snakechaarmer said:
This rack system did malfunction at one point right after we moved into the new house and some of the interior material melted. Luckily, it was in a pan that no snake was in and it melted some of the plastic as well as the actual rack around the flexwatt and all so I just threw the whole pan out... Do you think it's possible that some of the vapors/chemicals released during this problem could still be present in that rack system and have caused harmful irritants to the snakes' lungs that are just now manifesting a year later?

ALL of these snakes started exhibiting their symptoms while present in this rack.

Wow. I never thought about this?
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Most definitely a possibility! You may be onto something... try it... what have you got to lose at this point? Possibly making them all better...I would switch them out and see what happens.
 
Tinkerbeller87 said:
Most definitely a possibility! You may be onto something... try it... what have you got to lose at this point? Possibly making them all better...I would switch them out and see what happens.
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nono, they've been out of this rack for months now, they are in isolation in another part of my house and have been since July-Augish, Sharra since March.

what i was saying is before they got sick and when i saw them sick/noticed symptoms, they were in this rack system.
 
kathylove said:
Maybe the chemicals caused some permanent tissue damage, and scar tissue still causes irritation?
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This sounds pretty logical, IMO. Just sucks though because there is not much that can be done about permanent tissue damage. Just have to let it be I think.... I'm not a vet though so that would be something to take up with the professionals.
 
Keep the allergy diagnosis open. Yes, you have hardwood floors, have had the house tested for mold, etc, etc, but you fail to acknowledge airborne allergens, such as grass and tree pollen. Allergies can become symptomatic at any point in life and to just about anything. Our clinic has sent out quite a few allergy tests on dogs and cats, most of whom acquired their allergies at a few years of age or older, 99% of the time, either bahia grass or oak are part of the problem. You can't get completely away from either here in Florida, but the percentage of each can vary depending upon where you live. Moving just a few miles away can make a difference.

If they were my snakes, I would treat each again with a round of antibiotics (Baytril again or a different class of antibiotic), dosed properly, and if that didn't work, I would definitely try anti-histamines or steroidal anti-inflammatories for allergies.
 
Just thought I would update -

All Corns are the same as they have been. Sneezing, Wheezing, Popping - Not much Drool at all though. They are eating and seem otherwise fine.

We took Sharra, the one that's been sick the longest, in for a CBC. They did a CBC and two blood smears and sent them to Pathology. They all came back normal, all WBC counts were within normal limits, thus indicating no infections.

So, back to a very confusing square one. Not going to pump them full of Fortaz at this point. Going to attempt some x-rays this week to see if we can detect any physical lung damage.
 
I agree with Susan's last post. I think you're making a mistake ruling out allergies. You keep saying it's nothing in the house because other snakes have no symptoms, but allergies are individual, so those who have them, have them and those who don't, don't. I myself suffer from allergies, and 5 years ago, in the middle of a very bad allergy season, I went to San Francisco. I got off of the plane, and by the time I got my car rental, I had no symptoms and remained symptom free for the whole time I was there. Conversely, when I came home I got off of the plane and the minute I stepped out of the plane my sinuses filled and I couldn't breath.
If they were my snakes, I would give them a change of environment, since it was a change of environment that seemed to start the whole thing.
 
I understand what you're all saying about the allergies, but it wasn't a change of environment that started the whole thing. We were in the new home for a year before Sharra got sick.

If the x-rays show sinus inflammation or lung damage, I may try the Dex treatments.
 
snakechaarmer said:
I understand what you're all saying about the allergies, but it wasn't a change of environment that started the whole thing. We were in the new home for a year before Sharra got sick.

If the x-rays show sinus inflammation or lung damage, I may try the Dex treatments.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not I hear this a lot. But only when it comes to food allergies in dogs and cats. I hear "She is 5 yrs old and has been on the same food forever, it's not the food." Well, it usually is the food. So I think the allergies can become a problem even if it wasn't... Just an observation.
 
Hmm. Food. Have they been eating the same thing all the time? Can snakes get a mouse fur allergy?? How about trying an alternative food to see if the symptoms take longer to reappear or stay away? I know I'm reaching (quite far!) but this seems a big enough mystery to try a bit of a brainstorm.
 
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