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So what do I have here?

Here's some more photos (sorry, missed the belly shots). "Snow" male and "Caramel" females.

Caramel:
 

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Snow Male:
 

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All photos are with flash which is bringing the colors out a little more than natural perhaps. I'm not good enough (or my camera isn't) to take photos in focus without it.
 
In my very honest opinion, I am seeing odd hybrid markers in all of those. The tops of the heads, snouts, postocular region and labial markings in all of them don't seem right.


~Doug
 
You know I wasn't on the hybrid theory with the first photo's but I with these and pics of the brother I am thinking hybrid as well.
 
Wow, the color sure did change from one set of photos to the next! I wouldn't call them caramels judging by the second set of photos. I would suggest taking some photos outdoors in lightly shaded daylight. No flash would be needed and the colors will hopefully be true. Try using a mixture of colors in the background (earthy greens and browns are my favorite) so your camera has other colors to help it be accurate.

I also agree that the head looks a bit hybrid-ish, especially that last one of the side of the head.
 
If they are hybrids that might be why I kept looking at the snow and wondering what was different about his face from other corns..
 
cornsnakeforsale_com said:
Hmm... the snow looks just like this one, http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128316 .
Click to expand...

Well, it sort of does very superficially, but the neck blotch on this one of Orlando's forms into a very typical spearpoint "chevron", and it also has a typical postocular stripe. Every subtle marking on it is very classic corn.

8427764117_e8a449db5b_b.jpg


Note the very odd light marks over each eye on yours, no postocular stripe behind the eye, and weird "V" mark on the neck of yours.

attachment.php


The upsetting part about this is that MANY "jungle corn" hybrids do display these typical cornsnake features I just mentioned. And this is why so many have no idea what they ever have. They are extremely variable and it can also depend on each parent species percentage in their lineage as well.

~Doug
 
Here's some belly and vent shots.
 

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I have to go with hybrid, and damn nice ones! I may have some king hybrid this year, if she doesent eat him that is..... Cant wait to see what pops out if those two tho, keep us update!
 
OK, I'll label them as snow and caramel corns that are possibly a hybrid king snake mixture of some sort. I don't go for hybrids much, so I'll just keep them together as a trio to not further confuse things.

Thanks
 
You can bet they and any hatchlings they will go on to produce will "confuse things" later on. Its 100% inevitable no matter what as they exchange hands, are bred (to whatever), and produce more.


~Doug
 
honestly my opinion on those snakes is that they have some good king snake background. Cali king snakes have checkers on their bellies believe it or not and the heads on the three match in jungle corns and the head markers as well. the offspring you hatched from them, a few look like jungle throw backs. cali kings there is a lot of variables with that species on coloring and patterning. If i own these snakes I would do the same thing about keeping them as a trio and just go ahead and call them hybrids. your possible caramels look normal to me and would show up more corn throw back to corn snake blood then king snake if they are f2 from an f1 jungle normal pair with hets. honestly they are stunning and their offspring as well. Nothing wrong with hybrids honestly, but its always nice to know if the snakes you get contain king snake or milk snake blood if possible. I only have a problem with hybrids of the king snake and milk snake mixing because some will display more king snake and milk snake behavior and makes breeding not so fun when the female or male wants to eat the other partner ;) until there is dna testing for corn snakes to map out what is in each individual and what they carry genetic wise nothing can honestly be black and white on if these are true hybrids or not. Sorry for the rant but just my two cents ^^
 
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