So what's a Snopal?

[Clint Boyer]

I 'may' keep one of the Snopals, the rest I'm sending packin' :crazy02:

 

[wikkedkornman]

i had a snow-lavender that was completely white. looked like a blizzard. looked like an opal as a hatchling, a year later looked like a blizzard. died in brumation though

if i'm not mistaken, ultimatecornsnakes Glacier corn is all white too.

i didn't mean to offend you clint by calling snopal a cheesy name. sorry if i did.

 

[Clint Boyer]

i didn't mean to offend you clint by calling snopal a cheesy name.

Oh no, I'm not offended. I think it sounds kind of screwy myself. But hey, why not have some fun with it?

 

[JTGoff69]

I 'may' keep one of the Snopals, the rest I'm sending packin' :crazy02:[/QUOTE

How much are you asking for that Opal Clint? Wink Wink............

 

[Clint Boyer]

The thing I like about the name Snopal is that it's pretty easy to figure out what it is just by the name.

 

[Rich Z]

Yeah, this is another one of those messy situations. I have had what I am pretty darn sure are PURE Opals that turned out looking like superb Blizzard corns. I have also bred Snows that came from Opals (or at least I THOUGHT they were Snows) that when bred together, just didn't produce anything at all that stood out from the bunch. But heck, for all I know, maybe they were all just Opals that LOOKED like Snows, which would explain the confusing results I got. A while back I thought that the label of "Pearl Corn" applied to a triple homozygous animal (Lavender, Anerythrism, and Amelanism), but from what I could determine, and the reason for that project, that didn't seem to be the case. But anyway, I sold off the entire Snow Lavender project a couple of years ago when I got tired of hoping something interesting was going to result from it. Maybe some of them changed with maturity, but I didn't want to wait around to find out.

Most of the fully mature Opals I have, seem to lose all pattern and color. Just as really old Lavenders seem to lose all color and become kind of a pale slate gray color with a slight lavender tinge to it, I think this is reflected in the amelanistic form as well in that the colors tend to fade away with maturity.

Quite honestly, I think some Opals are going to look a lot like Snows when they come from some varieties of stock. The really tough part is going to be to know if they are really Opals, or if they are only Snows, or both. My general rule of thumb the last several years is that if it looks like a Snow to me, I label it as a Snow. If figure I may be wrong sometimes, but I'm hoping that people getting an Opal instead of a Snow would be much happier that way rather then getting a Snow if they paid for an Opal. Of course, it will definitely throw a wrinkle in some breeding plans, but I just don't know of a satisfactory solution to this problem.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Hey Clint, you can test the snopals for anery by crossing them to your snizzards. Then in the F2 you could try to hatch some snizzopals.

Do your anery lav(s) develop any orange at all? I'd think that they shouldn't. I haven't seen any lavenders (proven non-anery) that don't get any oranges in their subadult stage, but I haven't worked with a ton of lavenders yet... :shrugs: Any thoughts on this?

 

[ultimatecorns]

Nate and I bought Rich's snow lavender project 2 years ago. Of the 40 animals we got from Rich, 5 turned out to be glacier (we think, and are trying to prove... smile) They were completely white when we got them, and at that time they were 1 year old. All the others were snows some have proved to be het for lavender and some have not proven to be het for lavender. All of their parents (Rich kept, and so I don't knw what happened to them), were snows het lavender.

Snopal is a great name.
We played off the snow, thing and came up with Yeti (snow ghost) and glacier (snow lavender). Whatever name sticks is fine with us.

More important than the name is how to identify the hatchlings.
When they hatch out they look alot like snows or opals. They do become whiter with age, and lose their markings. It is very difficult to tell them apart from Opals. I have one adult that I am not sure if it is an opal or a glacier. Some opals have the orange thing going on so they can be identified, others seem to lose this. So it is very tricky. I also have some adult striped snows that lost their stripe, and are nearly as white as my glaciers.

We think they are fun and should go for around $300. Breeding animals that are only het for rather than triple homozygous for these traits will make identifying the offspring nearly impossible.

So far only a very limited few have hatched out. I wish I had double bred this past year, since the Lavender gene seems to yield low fertility too. We had hoped by now, to write a complete report on the subject, with the results of our test breeding. Our results are not all in yet, and so we pine away.

We will bring the hatchlings and some adults to Daytona next month.

Tim B

 

[Jynx]

i had a snow-lavender that was completely white. looked like a blizzard. looked like an opal as a hatchling, a year later looked like a blizzard. died in brumation though if i'm not mistaken, ultimatecornsnakes Glacier corn is all white too.

Thats exactly what my female looks like too. Started out with really "peachy" tones, and now at 16 months she looks just like a blizzard. You can see a faint pattern in there, but not unless you look closely. I'll see If I can get some updated pics on her.

 

[Jynx]

My general rule of thumb the last several years is that if it looks like a Snow to me, I label it as a Snow.

Odd that you say that Rich. I bought female my female in question from you as a snow het lav

 

[Clint Boyer]

I bought female my female in question from you as a snow het lav

That would be the safe way to sell them. I know that at the very least, every one of the hatchlings in this clutch is at least het Lav.

I 'think' I can pick out the Snopals by the slight orange cast to them. I've hatched out quite a few Snows and have neveer seen any orange on any of them. Opal vs Snopal is going to be a bit harder. I have only hatched out a large handful of Opals. They seem to have a translucent look to thier pattern especially around thier head, much like I've seen in Blizzards. I think once I start to inventory and separate them, I'll have a better idea (or not!)

Snizzards and Snopals! Ghizzards and Ghopals! Phizzards and Phopals!
Time for another poem?

 

[El Jefe]

I've seen the opposite in my animals....

Last year I bred my patternless snow to a lavender.

Well, the clutch came out lavenders, opals and snows. And that's it!

So, I figure the snow patternless is probably lavender as well and the lavender is het snow. (Granted, these are assumptions based on one breeding but this year I bred the snow patternless to a different lavender that is NOT het snow so we will see what pops up there. I repeated the original lavender breeding as well to see if normals pop up or anything else for that matter.)

Anyway, back on topic....
After about 10 months, my opals are clearly opals, the lavenders are lavender (and some may be lavender anery) and the snows have all lost their blotches. They look very similar to the 'glacier' corns I saw at Tampa from Tim. Under the right light you can see a sheen of lavender blotches.

Now my opals (all two of them) seem like they are keeping their peach. Now I don't have much experience with opals so maybe there is a lot of variation?

I'll try to take some pics of the above animals and get them posted.
-Jeff

 

[Jynx]

Now my opals (all two of them) seem like they are keeping their peach. Now I don't have much experience with opals so maybe there is a lot of variation?

My opal pair put out 3 clutches total for me within the last 2 years, and I have never seen so much variation in a clutch of only one morph. The adult male looks almost like a coral, just "peachy" instead of coral "pink" colored, and the female has the same colors, but her pattern is completely opposite. She had more color in her background than in her saddles. I've had both of them since hatchings, and from what I can see of them and their hatchlings that are still close enough to check on, they just don't lose their color. This may just be in the line that I bred, but most of them just never seem to go back once they get color.

The female "snopal" will be bred to my lav het amel this year just to prove out what happens. If I see anything other than a lav or an opal, then I know she's not a "snopal" and is indeed a snow het lav, but she has always been one I've questioned.

 

[Clint Boyer]

Do your anery lav(s) develop any orange at all?

Serp,
Of the 3 unproven/suspected anery-Lavenders I've seen, none show any of the orange or pink coloration seen in other Lavs. I think your assesment will probably be correct (for the most part).

Breeding animals that are only het for rather than triple homozygous for these traits will make identifying the offspring nearly impossible.

Tim,
I think you nailed it with that statement! It will take time, but it sounds like you are well on your way. I'm just not sure yet if it's a project that I care to tackle.

 

[Rich Z]

Serp,
Of the 3 unproven/suspected anery-Lavenders I've seen, none show any of the orange or pink coloration seen in other Lavs. I think your assesment will probably be correct (for the most part).

This is probably correct. I don't recall seeing ANY orange wash on any of the Lavenders that came from my Anerythrisitcs het Lavender.

 

[ultimatecorns]

Any ideas???

Nice to now know Rich that you have anery in some of your Lavender line.
I bred a snow pos het Lavender female to a Lavender het amel male (both from Serpenco 2002's) to see if the snow was het for lavender or not and got this. We are trying to guess what it is....


Is it a glacier (snopal)
If the lavender het amel is also het anery then it could be any of these, equal chances of each according to Mick progeny indicator, (other combos were also included but the appearance has ruled them out)

glacier
snow het lavender
opal het anery

If the Lavender het amel father is not het anery then these options:
opal het anery

 

[ultimatecorns]

more data

Out of the clutch described above, we also got 2 normals het for glacier. 2 amel looking animals that would be het for anery lavender, and one opal like one that would be het anery, in addition to the pictured one above.

 

[Clint Boyer]

If that snake were in my clutch of Opals, Snows and Snopals, I'd call it a Snow. That's purely guess work but there is no orange on it whatsoever that I can see.
I would compare it to Snows from non-Lavender lines. Drop it in with a clutch of Snows and see if you can pick it out.

 

[Clint Boyer]

The more I look at it, the pattern does look weak, alot like a Blizzard.

:shrugs: :shrugs: :shrugs:

 

[El Jefe]

The more I look at it, the pattern does look weak, alot like a Blizzard.

:shrugs: :shrugs: :shrugs:

That is what I was thinking....

I think it may be a glacier or snopal...whatever name sticks in the end... :sidestep:

In my opinion, hold on to it and see what it looks like in 6 months....

Or....sell it to me as a normal snow :sidestep: