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soon to-be snake owner - Germany

Do you have both in one cage? Co-habbing is pretty risky. Also a hot topic so might be why no one has said anything. A lot of snake folks keep their snakes seperate and only put any together if they plan on breeding. Then its just long enough for them to do the deed.
 
They are awesome looking snakes! They look like a Ghost & amel motley to me. Did you have them shipped or did you pick them up? You should wait the full week if they were shipped, but if they just had a few minute drive in the car, 3 or 4 days to calm down & settle in is probably enough. How old are they? My new babies hide a lot, they are only a few months old. But my first snake was quite a bit older when I got her & she never hid as much as my new ones. For myself, I saw your new post when I was busy doing something else on the computer & meant to come back & answer your questions, but forgot. Sorry! Good luck with your new snakes!
 
Thanks a lot for the replies.

@carnivorouszoo: I'm sorry to hear that cohabbing might have unset someone. The snakes have been kept together since they where hatchlings and no problems turned up so far. As I wrote in another thread, cohabbing is not that unusual in Germany and as far as no problems become obvious, I think I'll keep it that way. I'm sorry again if that displeases somebody, but people I personally know have made good experiences with it.

@Tavia: We picked them up, about one hour tour by car. They are 1.5 years old and especially the ghost stayed around half the night (at least; I think he's hungry). This morning at 6 o'clock I saw the motley for a couple of seconds, but since then: no signs of life.

Thanks again for answering.
Have a nice day,
marike
 
:wavey:

Hi Marike, I am new here as well and had my snakes cohabing for many years until recently they decided to mate. I found a good post on page 4 of the thread 'Introducing A New Adult Corn to My Current Adult Corn' under 'Husbandry and Basic Care.'

There is NO clear argument on why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE clear arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
Click to expand...

Anyway, congratulations and good luck.

Marica
 
Hello Leonore and Marica,

thanks for not treating me like I was leprous. I'll observe them closely and separate them if necessary.

The motley settled in one of the hidings on the "on the first floor" today. I can see him.

Have a nice day,
marike
 
marike said:
Thanks a lot for the replies.

@carnivorouszoo: I'm sorry to hear that cohabbing might have unset someone. The snakes have been kept together since they where hatchlings and no problems turned up so far. As I wrote in another thread, cohabbing is not that unusual in Germany and as far as no problems become obvious, I think I'll keep it that way. I'm sorry again if that displeases somebody, but people I personally know have made good experiences with it.

@Tavia: We picked them up, about one hour tour by car. They are 1.5 years old and especially the ghost stayed around half the night (at least; I think he's hungry). This morning at 6 o'clock I saw the motley for a couple of seconds, but since then: no signs of life.

Thanks again for answering.
Have a nice day,
marike
Click to expand...

Hi Marike, Welcome to the forum!!

I know co-habbing is not unusual in Germany, but that doesn't mean it's good for snakes to be co-habbed. Please allow me to explain why. One reason, although it is rare, is that corn snakes CAN eat each other, usually resulting in the death of both snakes. Someone on here (I can't remember who) has pictures of co-habbed snakes where one ate the other.

Another reason not to co-hab is that if one snake has runny poo or another health issue, you won't know who to treat or keep an eye on.

The major reason why co-habbing is a bad idea, is that by nature snakes are solitary animals. They don't like other snakes! If you find 2 co-habbed snakes together in a viv, they are competing for resources and find conditions in the area favorable, but they don't like each other. If you find a corn snake in nature, it will be alone. They don't run in herds! They come together only to mate.

My opinion is that by forcing solitary animals to share a living space, you are creating stress for them that they can never escape.

Cornsnakes are solitary animals, but humans aren't. Imagine that someone locked you in a small house with another person you don't like AT ALL. And made you live with that person 24/7, for your whole life.
You might "look" fine. You might be eating regularly and displaying normal body functions, but living under those conditions, do you think you would be healthy?
 
Hello and thank you, that you took the time to explain all this.

And I want to say some words about your concerns.

Cannibalism: This isn't very likely. They lived together all their lives and never did anything to harm each other. Why should that change now? (it's nearly four days now and both are still well by the way)

Checking poo and health: Ok, that's a point I accept completely. But since they will get the same food and water and are taken care of by the same person (me;)) and even if I would have two tanks, they would stand near to each other (so airborne infection or exogenous parasites could spread anyway), there would be a pretty good chance, they both would become ill, if one of them was.

Your major Point: snakes are solitary: That's true, in the nature, there are no such things like corn snake herds. And your opinion that they don't like other snakes is understandable. But even if they live alone in the nature, because there are no benefits for them in gregariousness, that doesn't mean they suffer from one another.
I read a scientific article titled "Intraguild predation, thermoregulation, and
microhabitat selection by snakes". They tested, which sun bathing place corn snakes choose, given there are 1) no other snakes around, 2) the smell of a king snake was detectable or 3) the king snake itself was around. They tested snakes of several ages. (I do not support animal experiments by the way, but the article exists so why not broaden one's knowledge.)
As the observation showed, if the corns had to choose between a colder spot alone and a warmer spot with a king snake on it, they often chose the warm place and risked predation.
I know this is a little bit off topic and not exactly what we are discussing about, but if snakes prefer warmth in company of a potential predator over a safe cold spot, then why would they bother about another (harmless) companion in the tank?
Besides they have two sun spots and several hiding places in my terrarium so they can avoid each other if they want.

By the way, I had to work and/or live with people I don't like several times and you can bet that this interfered with both my behavior and my health. So if you "locked me in a small house with another person I don't like AT ALL", you would be able to tell by watching. Of course this wouldn't be healthy, you're right, but you could see it for sure.
And therefore my personal opinion is, that you are able to notice if another snake in the tank affects the inner balance of the animal.

I know this wont change your (and everyone else's) opinion of me and of the whole cohabing-subject. But all this is reason enough for me to try it, since it worked for so long. Above all: If I hadn't got the two guys, they would still be in their old home, together as well, but in a tank half the size of mine.

Thanks for your time.
Best regards,
marike
 
Maybe I have no business jumping in on this topic (HA HA there's the phrase that tells me I just shouldn't post it), afterall, I don't even have my snake yet! LOL.

That being said, I get the feeling that Marike is feeling under attack here. There were some scenarios thrown out there to illustrate that co-habing is not the best option, but I want to point out that few domesticated animals live exactly as they do in the wild; rather they adapt to the circumstances presented to them.

I don't have experience, but I do have fresh reading knowledge...

it seems the main danger of cannibalism occurs when they are competing for food... I think feeding them separately would eliminate that.

personally, I only intend to have one snake because I would feel most comfortable housing them separately and I don't have space for two (OK - see how long that last as I internet chat with snake enthusiasts - I think I am talking about mental space right now and I am going to try to avoid entertaining the physical space issue - LOL)

But let's give Marike some support. she's made her case and I'm sure there is someone on this board doing the same that could give her some advice.

On the same token, Marike, I don't think anyone was trying to attack you or even judge you. I don't think anyone has a poor opinion of you. I haven't been on the board for long, but I have seen that these are all people who care for their snakes AND love a good debate. Co-habing is a hot topic, so just expect a few opinions.

My suggestion would be to do a forum search on the subject. (if you haven;t done so already) You can probably find a lot of old posts with information and debate. You can also find out who else is on the board that co-habs and seek them out for adivce in pm's if you don't feel comfortable "putting yourself out there" for more aggressive opinions.

All the best!!
 
Cohab is and will always be a hot topic. As long as people have all the possible info, they have to make their own decision.
 
Thank you Leonore, for your support.

Of course I am feeling under attack. I didn't decide "I want corn snakes" out of a clear blue sky. I did a lot of research on the internet, in books, I spoke to breeders and the guys in the aquaristics/terraristics shop near by. I also had several conversations with the previous owner of my two guys. He kept snakes for many years before he now gave up this part of his hobby.

Thanks Kali for at least acknowledging the possibility of decision.
 
marike said:
Thank you Leonore, for your support.

Of course I am feeling under attack. I didn't decide "I want corn snakes" out of a clear blue sky. I did a lot of research on the internet, in books, I spoke to breeders and the guys in the aquaristics/terraristics shop near by. I also had several conversations with the previous owner of my two guys. He kept snakes for many years before he now gave up this part of his hobby.

Thanks Kali for at least acknowledging the possibility of decision.
Click to expand...

I am sorry you feel under attack. I would rather you felt welcome!

It's just that some of us have seen snakes suffer and die, due to co-habbing. And we here LOVE these creatures, and want the best for them! So, we are sometimes blunt. Co-habbing is something I personally hate, because it resulted in the death of one of my favorite animals. I really wish you would reconsider....
 
marike said:
I'm very sorry for your snake. What happened?
Click to expand...

Everyone on here HAS to be totally sick of the story by now! But I have a personal forum on this site called Starsevol's Snakes. (I don't know how to do linkys) and the whole sad story is in there. It's toward the bottom.

I mean, it was MY fault. The co-habbing indirectly led to her death. But since I thought she was a male and didn't provide a laybox....plus being stressed she didn't wander the cage and I think that contributed due to lack of muscle tone....but if they were never co-habbed I would still have her!

Sorry to babble....just, please think about rethinking cohabbing...?
 
Hi starsevol,

I read your story by now. It's really sad.
I will think about rethinking. Can we leave it at that?

I wish a nice day to all of you,
marike
 
marike, I am sorry you have felt under attack. Most are only so adamant about it due to personal experiences that ended badly. We all are only seeking the best for the snakes as they have no voice of thier own. I hope you realize that no one meant to upset you, only make sure you know the risks. My point of view is that just because "They" do it doesn't make it right. I personally think this infamous "They" needs to be bound and gagged as the are famous for "Their" bad info. Hugs!
 
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