Super Tessera's

[Tavia]

Max just shed, so I took some more pictures, trying to get both his cheeks, his dorsal stripes, lateral stripes and belly, the hardest part! The more I stare at Tessera corns, the more confused I get, so I'm not sure my observations have any merit but I can post lots of pictures and see if they help anyone else!

One side. The one he lets me get most often.

Other side.

Lateral stripes.

Top dorsal stripes.

 

[Tavia]

He has a few checkers in the "chin" and neck area, then none at all for about 4-5 inches.

Then for the next several inches, he has some checkers, all in the middle, a few clustered together and several far apart.

Then they start to merge together into one stripe down most of the back half of his body.

The stripe goes down the middle to the vent, then splits into a stripe running down both edges of his tail.

Since belly patterns seem naturally hugely variable with Tessera, not sure how much they help. I haven't particularly noted the patterns on my non potential Super Tess's other than to note that they vary widely. But Persephone (not proven potential Super) has a very similar belly pattern to Max.

I should probably try and get better pictures and notes on the belly patterns of the remaining Tessera Max sired that are still with me ...

 

[Haight]

Regardless if he is a super or not he is absolutely gorgeous!

 

[MysticExotics]

I think so.
I'm really thinking that Citrine is a Super, not as sure with the others.

She is one of my favorites. She is going to turn out lighter, like her sire, Brokk.

He has a few checkers in the "chin" and neck area, then none at all for about 4-5 inches.

Then for the next several inches, he has some checkers, all in the middle, a few clustered together and several far apart.

Then they start to merge together into one stripe down most of the back half of his body.

The stripe goes down the middle to the vent, then splits into a stripe running down both edges of his tail.

Since belly patterns seem naturally hugely variable with Tessera, not sure how much they help. I haven't particularly noted the patterns on my non potential Tess's other than to note that they vary widely. But Persephone (not proven potential Super) has a very similar belly pattern to Max.

I should probably try and get better pictures and notes on the belly patterns of the remaining Tessera Max sired that are still with me ...

I have my doubts about belly pattern being a marker, because I have had a variety of random belly patterns on (het) Tessera's.
I could be wrong though.
Hopefully this testing will help give us some answers.

Regardless if he is a super or not he is absolutely gorgeous!

Max is a proven Super

 

[MysticExotics]

Citrine (KAI-18F) does have similar belly markings...

 

[Haight]

Max is a proven Super

Oh, I somehow missed that. AWESOME!

 

[MysticExotics]

Oh, I somehow missed that. AWESOME!

We're trying to see if we can figure out if there are any markers that indicate "super" form.

I have a clutch of Miami Tessera X Miami Tessera that I am holding back to test, and looking for any similar markers they might have.

 

[cturley]

Interesting discussion!

I have four photos to offer. The first is of Vin Russo's super tessera, the first one proven homozygous. He has the unbroken dorsal neck striping, but surprisingly little lateral tessellation. Maybe that's variable . . .?

So I've looked back at the photos of every tessera I've produced for the past 3 years, all of them tessera x non-tessera pairings. Excluding the motley, motley/stripe, and stripe tesseras--which all have the unbroken stripe at the neck, but which I attribute to the addition of motley/stripe--every tessera I looked at had the break at the neck . . . until the last clutch. And there, in the same clutch with several tesseras with breaks at the neck, were these two. (2nd and 3rd pics)

The pairing was Miami het Hypo Snow x Miami-ish Tessera het Blizzard Motley. It was a second clutch, but the female's previous clutch was also sired by a non-tessera. Then I noticed the female herself, who is most definitely not a super. (4th pic)

So . . . I don't see how the unbroken dorsal stripe at the neck can indicate a super. It does seem that 95% of non-supers have the break, but I don't feel like "most of the time" can really be used to define a genetic trait. (Though I bow to DuxorW's opinion in that regard.) :shrugs:

 

[MysticExotics]

Gorgeous babies! Thank you for your input!

My friend who has proven the Super gene in Caramel Coastals (Carpet Pythons) told me that if the Tessera gene acts like the Caramel gene, then all Supers will have certain indicators/markers (can be very subtle), and that some non Supers that are very nice versions can have the markers.
So, the markers (like certain head markings or intact dorsal stripe) just might be indicators of being Super, but we might also see these markers in really nice non-Supers.

Yes, this will make it kind of hard to determine Supers from really nice non-Supers, but it is a step in the right direction.

 

[Tavia]

Thanks for posting that picture of the first proven Super! I knew there were pictures of him on this site but couldn't find them when I went digging a few months ago.

 

[MysticExotics]

Don S. said that there were a couple that went over seas that turned out to be Super. I don't know who they are, or if they are on this forum, but I'd love to hear from them if they are here!

I want to see as many photos of proven Supers, to see what markers they have in common.

 

[Tavia]

Okay, so as far as head/neck patterns go. Our two proven Supers (NEED MORE DATA!) both have this, near full stripe with one small break at the inner stripe, at the back of the skull.

Max

1st proven Super.

Potential Super Persephone has it. And so do the last three of Heather's potential Supers, posted on reply #18. Ametrite (KAI-13F), Citrine (KAI-18F) and Lazurite (KAI-01M)

We know that a handful of proven non Supers also have this marking, therefor it might be a potential clue but cannot be used exclusively to determine Supers.

A few of the non Supers with the same pattern.

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The most common head/neck pattern for non Supers.

The second most common head/neck pattern for non Supers. One that both the inner and outer stripes flow right into the head pattern with no breaks at all.

 

[MysticExotics]

It's certainly worth watching for these clues!
Thank you!!

 

[DuxorW]

I think you could be on to something with the cheek pattern, but should also be prepared for the chance that there are no markers for super tesseras.

The reason for this relates to mechanisms of dominance. One mechanism is called "dominant-negative." Dominant negative is when a dominant mutation is dominant because the gene product of the mutant allele is not only nonfunctional, but basically poisons the product of the wt allele. This can happen when the protein product of a gene functions as a "dimer" or "multimer," meaning that the protein product of the gene has to bind to other copies of itself to carry out its function. If a member of the complex is the product of the mutant dominant-negative allele, the complex no longer functions, and the phenotype is similar to what you would get if the animal were homozygous for two non functional alleles at that locus, hence the term dominant (since the allele is dominant)-negative (since the phenotype is similar to homozygous for a null allele). With dominant-negative mutations, the phenotype is usually not exacerbated when the animal is homozygous for the dominant-negative allele.

But hopefully you do find reliable markers!

 

[DuxorW]

I checked a few of my tesseras. None are from tess x tess breedings, except possibly the SK tessera, because I do not know anything about the breeding that produced her, but it seems unlikely.

1) lava tessera het caramel female: had a connected stripe, like the candycane tessera above
2) lava tessera het caramel male: had a disconnected stripe, with a decent sized gap between stripe and head pattern (irrelevant detail: he was sent to me as a problem feeder, and now tries to eat my finger whenever I open his tub. Ha!)
3) snow tessera female: same as 2
4) hypo tessera het cinder male: same as 2
5) tessera het lava 66% ph lavender 50% ph amel motley male: same as 2
6) ultramel lavender tessera 66% ph anery motley male: same as 2
7) miami tessera het amel female: same as 2
8) sunkissed tessera het caramel female: no neck stripe, has saddle-like markings there instead, presumably because of the sunkissed (she's my avatar).

The cheek patterns all look like the one's posted earlier in the thread from the tessera x non tessera breedings, except the ultramel lavender tessera and SK tessera, which seem kind of intermediate.

I could get pictures of all of them, eventually, and include belly pics.

I will be pairing the two lava tesseras het caramel eventually, but that is years from now. The first pairing for the female was going to be to a lava bloodred 66% ph caramel, but maybe I will do the tess x tess pairing first now.

 

[MysticExotics]

There is that possibility, I know.
Once I figure out which ones of mine are Supers, I will be looking for common markers.
I will also see if my non Super (het) Tessera's have any of the same markings.

I probably won't be doing any more whole clutch testing on Tessera's after this (who knows, I might), but you can be sure I'll be keeping a couple Super Tessera's once I figure out which ones are. The problem will be picking which ones to keep. I have so many favorites in this clutch!

 

[JTBelcastro]

Tavia, that was a really cool breakdown and analysis of the difference between tessera head and neck lining, thank you! Just catching up on this thread and it seems of great importance

 

[Tavia]

Okay, as requested, here is a breakdown on one of Mystic's poss Supers, Citrine. Based on some pictures Heather shared on the progression thread for them, my personal opinion is that Lazurite, Calcite, Tanzanite, Azurite and Citrine probably have the best chance of being Supers based on their looks, if we are actually on to anything here. I chose Citrine because she is the one I'd actually be willing to bet money on being a Super.

First there is the belly pattern, few checks at the chin, none for a length and then all in the middle merging in a stripe down the middle of the belly on the back half. This is exactly like Max's.

Next the possible Super neck marker, not limited to poss Supers.

The side stripe, it is thin and more erratic. Reminds me a lot of Max's.

And then the cheek, where the blue circle is, there is something about that area, that sorry, I can't really describe and it's very hard to get on camera but I believe I am also seeing the same thing in that area on Citrine that I've noted in Max.

 

[Nanci]

You guys should PM Rich Hume, and see if he has pics of his super.

 

[MysticExotics]

Okay, as requested, here is a breakdown on one of Mystic's poss Supers, Citrine. Based on some pictures Heather shared on the progression thread for them, my personal opinion is that Lazurite, Calcite, Tanzanite, Azurite and Citrine probably have the best chance of being Supers based on their looks, if we are actually on to anything here. I chose Citrine because she is the one I'd actually be willing to bet money on being a Super.

First there is the belly pattern, few checks at the chin, none for a length and then all in the middle merging in a stripe down the middle of the belly on the back half. This is exactly like Max's.

Next the possible Super neck marker, not limited to poss Supers.

The side stripe, it is thin and more erratic. Reminds me a lot of Max's.

And then the cheek, where the blue circle is, there is something about that area, that sorry, I can't really describe and it's very hard to get on camera but I believe I am also seeing the same thing in that area on Citrine that I've noted in Max.

Thank you SO much for this!
I am so glad that you ended up with Max! You have been a big help and I am optimistic that we can figure out a lot about Supers!