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The Feds attack us yet again...

Its a tough call on what to do with all the "surplus" snakes. I don't want to see any one driven out of business but at the same time I wonder how many snakes that are produced by big breeders end up abused/dead from improper care. I often think that reptile breeders are producing way more animals then needed.

If breeders have to increase the cost to due to permits then thats ok to. I'd rather pay more for a healthy, legal animal that a pet store snakes anyways.

Something has to be done though, we are either going to have to push for alternatives like permits or else deal with what the Government throws at us.

This isn't going to overflow into cornsnakes or other reptiles. This isn't a ploy for the Government to control us. Like it or not, humans are a dumb species and someone has to look try and protect us/the animals/this planet from our stupidity.
 
waldo said:
Like it or not, humans are a dumb species and someone has to look try and protect us/the animals/this planet from our stupidity.
Click to expand...
So what planet/species are these govt officials from? Last I heard there still had never been any proof of aliens landing here, but guess I could've missed it.

And what's with all the pet store bias? Just like there are good and bad pet stores, there are good and bad breeders. Just because you buy from a breeder doesn't mean you're automatically getting a better snake than someone else who bought a pet store snake. And just as many careless future owners can get their snakes directly from a breeder as from pet stores. Broad generalizations are rarely a good idea.
 
You misunderstand my point. I just ment that the Government usually tries to protect us from ourselves, not control our lives.

I assumed when we were talking about breeders on this thread that it ment the reputable ones like NERD. The crappy ones can go out of business for all I care. Pet shop bias is based on the fact that I have NEVER seen one good one in regards to reptiles. Some are decent but even then severly lacking in proper care.
I'm sure its different on the East coast as reptiles are much more popular there.
 
I saw this posted over at ball-pythons.net and I agree with Kathy. All reptile enthusiasts from owners with just one snake to the biggest breeder needs to make their voice heard.

Wrote my letter and mailing it today (wanna read it again later, make sure it's good).
 
"This isn't going to overflow into cornsnakes or other reptiles"

Why do you think that? Here in Florida, we have only Burmese pythons, and in a small area near Miami, boa constrictors as FOR SURE populations of invasive boids. But we have OODLES of invasive lizards, and a few frogs and other herps, not to mention plants and other animals.

It is true that the Burms are spectacular and sensational because of the potential for danger. So they made great headlines and became an embarrassment for the state - something had to be done! But Cuban tree frogs, cane toads, and spiny tail iguanas probably do more damage than Burmese pythons will ever do. (Of course, feral cats do even more damage, but there is no way they can ban cats!). So why wouldn't they add other, non-boid species in the future?
 
Though for sure FL also had an infestation of Corns and Yellow Ratsnakes too :)

couldn't help myself

Yes, as we all know, this can only snowball into more and more animals. Its interested to read the USFW inquiry which mentions that a state office in FL petitioned that the USFW prohibit just the Burmese Python. While I'm aware that there are a number of Burmese running rampant and breeding (i've seen looted and hatched egg), I have to agree with Kathy that Burms are not the ultimate evil when compared to iguanas, cane toads, nile monitors and other invasive species. But with this type of prohibition, things can only snowball and cover more and more species, and they'll be able to slip them into laws much more easily.
 
This won't stop with big snakes. It wasn't very long ago they were talking about iguanas because of salmonella. Nobody mentioned chickens and eggs have salmonella. Don't for a minute think corn snakes are cute and immune.
 
waldo said:
You misunderstand my point. I just ment that the Government usually tries to protect us from ourselves, not control our lives.
Click to expand...

Hum, save us from ourselves, or control out lives. I can't decide which is worse.

I know I'm canadian, but don't let that fool you. We are having the exact same problem. I'd doing all I can, I'm getting a petition to pass around, I wrote to my local MLA, I'm keeping in touch with the herp community to see if there is anything else I can do. For us it's the SPCA making a submission to the ministry of environment. They want to ban, like, everything.
But they are fine with fur farms.
Hypocrites.
 
v_various said:
Hum, save us from ourselves, or control out lives. I can't decide which is worse.

I know I'm canadian, but don't let that fool you. We are having the exact same problem. I'd doing all I can, I'm getting a petition to pass around, I wrote to my local MLA, I'm keeping in touch with the herp community to see if there is anything else I can do. For us it's the SPCA making a submission to the ministry of environment. They want to ban, like, everything.
But they are fine with fur farms.
Hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Yes, Canada is in trouble of those invasive species such as Burms or other tropical herps. :bang:
 
Whenever possible, avoid petitions in favor of individual letters. I think they get much more notice. Maybe you could even print a bunch of letters with only the address, and try to get people to just write a sentence or two that you suggest to them, and sign it with their name and address. Then you could mail it for them. It would be a little extra time and cost, but I think it would have a lot more impact. I am thinking of doing that for our herp society, as most of them just keep a pet or two and probably won't write on their own.
 
kathylove said:
Whenever possible, avoid petitions in favor of individual letters. I think they get much more notice. Maybe you could even print a bunch of letters with only the address, and try to get people to just write a sentence or two that you suggest to them, and sign it with their name and address. Then you could mail it for them. It would be a little extra time and cost, but I think it would have a lot more impact. I am thinking of doing that for our herp society, as most of them just keep a pet or two and probably won't write on their own.
Click to expand...

Kathy,
Great idea..
I even posted a comment on our groups in yahoo for the herp society I am involved with.

But seriously the best thing to do is also talk to your local representative about this as well. Remember, many of us are going to vote tonight and possibly your congressman may be at the site shaking hands. If they are, talk to them about this. Let it be known how you feel. If you do not see them, call them up and talk to them. Do not talk to an aid, actually try and talk to the representative in person. Heck, if you can even go to their office and arrange a meeting, please do so.
 
Your government sound's just like ours now. The public smoking ban for one. People my age are not even allowed to were hooded tops with he hood up. It infuriates me that one person can have so much power over so many. Now it worries me that this stupid ban will come over seas because allot of my friends have pythons and boas. I was rather thinking of getting a boa my self.

Who says we live in a democracy more like a dictatorship, being told what to eat, what to wear and what animals you can have.

Good luck keep on fighting, hope it turns out for the best!!!
 
I just posted a comment on the government site, but I don't know how much good it will do...

I mostly said that a ban such as this would put tremendous strain on individuals and businesses that act responsibly and care for their animals well.

I also said that these animals will still be sold underground, and that more irresponsible people will be the ones who own them if that happens.

Hope I did OK.:uhoh:
 
The way I wrote them was to basically ask them to reconsider making this a straight ahead ban. I don't think anyone believes that the non-native threat is mainly from escapees, so much as inept keepers setting their animals free. I object (though much less strongly) to the idea of licensing or setting up a permit to keep certain species (though they should be specific to areas and species that are 'compatible'. I can't make any sense of a Burmese Python permit in Minnesota- maybe that means that states are much better equipped to pass such laws..) but that's a much better comprimise IMO.

Also made the point about feral cats- one of my personal pet peeves.. I think that department knows even better than me that they are a bigger threat.
 
I think the most important point to make is that we don't need FEDERAL permits or bans in place. This should be a STATE problem, and dealt with by individual states that think they are threatened by the snakes, and ignored by those that don't consider them a problem.
 
kathylove said:
This should be a STATE problem, and dealt with by individual states that think they are threatened by the snakes, and ignored by those that don't consider them a problem.
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VERY much in agreement with that. That's the only way this makes sense.
 
Ok I know I am Canadian and have no voice in the US regarding possible bans!
I am also very new to keeping snakes. But if this goes over with you guys and gals or should I say is forced on you it won't be long before we are affected.
Now this may not go over well in this forum but I think there should be some regulation for large pythons, venomous snakes. Why should that be a big deal unless you have pets that you can't properly handle and care for?? Do you really think they could actually stop someone who is bound and bent on getting such a pet?? How hard is it to get an unregistered hand gun? Now would you actually report your unregistered hand gun if it were stolen and now a danger to the public?? Same with the 16' python you have been keeping illegally on the sly, going to report it missing so warnings can be issued and it can be found before doing any great harm. Doubt it in both examples!

No not a ban but a regulatory system for ownership, I would not like to think that people are so against meeting some requirements?? If you can't meet some regulations are you actually able to care for your pet properly?? And breeders should also have to meet some rules as well, don't want snake "puppy mills"!!!
Ok flame away and I do understand!!!!
Bill
 
There already IS a permit process for the BIG 5 boids here in Florida. This state is the only place in North America that I know of with one (or more) of those species breeding in the wild, and the only place north of Mexico where it is likely to happen.

Of course, the lawmakers, in their great wisdom, saw fit to make the permit cost $100 per year, so there will probably be plenty of people who decide to keep them underground instead of getting a permit. Unfortunately, those who are willing to fork over $100 to stay legal are not likely to be the same irresponsible people who may allow their snakes to escape, or turn them loose, or let them cause some other problem.

Our herp society has long taken in unwanted herps and found homes for them. But since our treasurer (who keeps most of them until a home is found), doesn't care to spend $100 per year to help out, we have to turn Burmese and other "special concern" species away. If the pet owner doesn't want it euthanized, and doesn't want to send it out of state, then he will very likely decide to turn it loose hoping it will make it on its own. This is also true of red ear sliders, another unwanted herp we used to take in and find homes for. No more homes, since prospective new owners are not likely to have permits.

Such are the unintended consequences of laws that sound really good on paper. That is why I generally do not support ANY new laws about ANYTHING, unless I have researched it well and think the benefit truly outweighs the downside, and possible unintended consequences.

But we do have a permit system already in place here in Florida, and any other states can copy us if they want to. So if a law is really the answer, we already have one, thank you.
 
kathylove said:
There already IS a permit process for the BIG 5 boids here in Florida. This state is the only place in North America that I know of with one (or more) of those species breeding in the wild, and the only place north of Mexico where it is likely to happen.

Of course, the lawmakers, in their great wisdom, saw fit to make the permit cost $100 per year, so there will probably be plenty of people who decide to keep them underground instead of getting a permit. Unfortunately, those who are willing to fork over $100 to stay legal are not likely to be the same irresponsible people who may allow their snakes to escape, or turn them loose, or let them cause some other problem.

Our herp society has long taken in unwanted herps and found homes for them. But since our treasurer (who keeps most of them until a home is found), doesn't care to spend $100 per year to help out, we have to turn Burmese and other "special concern" species away. If the pet owner doesn't want it euthanized, and doesn't want to send it out of state, then he will very likely decide to turn it loose hoping it will make it on its own. This is also true of red ear sliders, another unwanted herp we used to take in and find homes for. No more homes, since prospective new owners are not likely to have permits.

Such are the unintended consequences of laws that sound really good on paper. That is why I generally do not support ANY new laws about ANYTHING, unless I have researched it well and think the benefit truly outweighs the downside, and possible unintended consequences.

But we do have a permit system already in place here in Florida, and any other states can copy us if they want to. So if a law is really the answer, we already have one, thank you.
Click to expand...
So the next step will be to get the breeders to chip the neonates before they are sold on . And thus traceability will be achieved . Blame the popularity in snakes as pets and , OOOO I nearly cussed again, irresponsible owners as the problem. Not the government.... This is what happens when you are allowed to keep what you want not what you should have....
Don't start flaming me again for that, but, it's the state of our society that is at fault. There's a thread on here about a guy with a Red Tail and he may or may not know what he let his self in for..... $100 isn't a great amount when it comes to a hobby.... My dogs cost $1600 each if you want one, the next batch will be $2000 each...registered and chipped.
Safe guard your hobby pre empt the government and get the things in place you know should be there...... Don't let them decide for you ...I've sent my support for you guys as I know , here will be next. But I've already started to lobby our guys, so they have some thing to go.. the government is lazy they will go for the easy option on anything.....
And it's the animals welfare we are all calling for....
QUESTION--- would you pay $100 to keep your animals and stop the irresponsible owners ruining our hobby.
MIKE
 
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