The Great Reptilinks Experiment!

[Dragonling]

I'm somewhat disappointed that you've only done 5 feedings at most. Honestly, I kind of ignored the claim that the links have double the calories because most really don't (as you said, the venison are the closest to meeting that claim). My cayenne is currently eating links of equivalent weight to the mice he'd be eating and has typically pooped twice within 48-72 hours. I currently have nothing to compare his growth to, but if I manage to get a clutch out of the pair I bought this year I'll be doing a similar experiment with fresh OOE hatchlings, since I plan to hold them back for a few sheds to decide which to keep.

 

[Haarstad]

I won't be able to do a valid experiment either because I'm going to have both of mine on them…


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[BeauBoi]

I'm sorry beau, I must've misunderstood your tone when you called me a repti-link cheerleader or stated that I can experiment with my snakes health because of a food item being ground up... My bad

I was just stating the facts that ground up meat has no disadvantage to something whole... And this started cause you were asking if we had pics of Corns eating deer... And I was simply getting at "don't be dumb"... I was nice about it till you felt caps were necessary.. Plenty of snakes eat deer though if that's what you want to hear... Google is king


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I only called you a Cheerleader after you started lecturing me about how I wasn't giving reptilinks a chance. I don't NEED to give them a chance. Why would I? I have a perfectly acceptable food source already that is cheaper and PROVEN. If someone ever PROVES that reptilinks are a superior food source for my snake, I will happily switch over, but until that happens I will stick with mice. Thanks for the "apology".
~Beau

 

[DuxorW]

I'm somewhat disappointed that you've only done 5 feedings at most. Honestly, I kind of ignored the claim that the links have double the calories because most really don't (as you said, the venison are the closest to meeting that claim). My cayenne is currently eating links of equivalent weight to the mice he'd be eating and has typically pooped twice within 48-72 hours. I currently have nothing to compare his growth to, but if I manage to get a clutch out of the pair I bought this year I'll be doing a similar experiment with fresh OOE hatchlings, since I plan to hold them back for a few sheds to decide which to keep.

I understand the disappointment, but if the difference in growth rate were meaningful I would have expected a difference to show up during that time. I still have a couple more feedings I can do. But this just tells me that even if there is a difference, it is likely to be subtle with the rabbit/chicken blend specifically.

I was hoping for a promising preliminary result that would encourage me to try it on hatchlings and raise them to 300g on links vs mice, which would be a better experiment. But in my hands the mouse-fed group did slightly better, suggesting any difference in growth rate between rabbit/chicken links vs mice is not likely to make a difference in the big scheme of things.

After considering the calories per kg of a rabbit/chicken link vs mouse, my preliminary result is not really surprising. I would fully expect the venison links to have an effect, although they don't make them in mini links.

 

[Haarstad]

Although it won't be an experiment, I will be feeling my lovely girls these soon and I'll be sure to post pictures of how they grow! As well as anything that needs to be taken into consideration, (Feeding less often to reduce obesity), hopefully they convert over smooth!


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[BeauBoi]

Although it won't be an experiment, I will be feeling my lovely girls these soon and I'll be sure to post pictures of how they grow! As well as anything that needs to be taken into consideration, (Feeding less often to reduce obesity), hopefully they convert over smooth!


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Stop sending me private messages calling me names, you weirdo!
~Beau

 

[Haarstad]

I called you a troll.. Are you still talking?


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[Dragonling]

 

[Haarstad]

I wanna know how you got my picture.. Lol


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[BeauBoi]

I called you a troll.. Are you still talking?


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Yes, I am still talking! This is a public forum, not your personal lounge. You attacked me, when I wasn't even addressing you in the first place.
THEN you sent me a message calling me a troll and saying people here lost respect for me because I didn't agree with you.
You are seriously deranged. G.R.O.W. U.P.
~Beau

 

[Haarstad]

Wow.. I never attacked you with my original post... Read it with a calm voice in mind... Check it again.

Calling you a troll because you over reacted is totally a legitimate thing to do btw. It's kinda like stating the obvious but I kept it private..

I'm sorry, but with all those caps, it's hard to tell if I'm speaking to a child or an adult with mental instability.. You need to retract your head from places, and insert foot in mouth...

Did you just learn how to quote as well? I'm pretty sure people can figure out what you're talking about without having your post repeat everything..

This will be the last time I acknowledge your existence since you are obviously a child, you can have the last word...


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[BeauBoi]

Wow.. I never attacked you with my original post... Read it with a calm voice in mind... Check it again.

Calling you a troll because you over reacted is totally a legitimate thing to do btw. It's kinda like stating the obvious but I kept it private..

I'm sorry, but with all those caps, it's hard to tell if I'm speaking to a child or an adult with mental instability.. You need to retract your head from places, and insert foot in mouth...

Did you just learn how to quote as well? I'm pretty sure people can figure out what you're talking about without having your post repeat everything..

This will be the last time I acknowledge your existence since you are obviously a child, you can have the last word...


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Yea, your STILL throwing around insults, really mature.

Look up the definition of Troll, it fits you way better than me.

You are the one who took offense to something I said that wasn't even addressed to you.

Then you made a post to me that was condescending and offensive (Hint: starting a post with "Some people..." is rarely taken well).

Then you chose to harass me with an insulting pm, the title of which was an act of name calling, with the additional arrogance added in of saying that everyone on this forum had "lost respect for me" because I disagreed with you.

Yes, you DO need to grow up and probably get reading lessons if your having trouble following along.

~Beau

 

[DuxorW]

This argument really doesn't belong in the thread. This isn't the ball python forums...

 

[Dragonling]

I'm not a moderator, so I'm not sure why you're both PMing me. I know as much as any how much it sucks when someone says something you strongly disagree with or that you find insulting or mean, but the world isn't sunshine and rainbows, and that's especially true on the internet. I am often vocal in my disagreements as well, so I feel like this is a good lesson for me, too. If you guys can't show a modicum of professionalism and apologize to each other, the least you can do is just drop it.

 

[Nanci]

Okay- everyone calm down. Quit with the name calling.

 

[El Jefe]

Sure, adult snakes sometimes eat small sized rabbits. Now, please post a picture of a hatchling eating a rabbit, since reptilinks make "pinkie-sized links for hatchlings.
~Beau

While you are at it, please post a corn snake of ANY size eating a deer in the wild.
~Beau

The ole "what they eat in the wild" is always an interesting debate as most everyone feeds newborn mice to freshly hatched corns. In the wild, the chief food of young corns will be lizards, not pinkie mice. How far off is rabbit or deer, no idea but if someone actually did the proper experimental design it would be a neat study.

 

[Kevin S.]

Sure, adult snakes sometimes eat small sized rabbits. Now, please post a picture of a hatchling eating a rabbit, since reptilinks make "pinkie-sized links for hatchlings.
~Beau

Mice are cheaper, and are a whole food source that the snake has evolved to eat (as opposed to rabbit or deer).

Which is it-rabbits are unnatural prey that they didn't evolve to eat or adult snakes sometimes eat small rabbits? If I'm being really particular, domestic mice aren't what they "evolved to eat" either. Hispid cotton rats, eastern moles, white-footed mice, anoles, skinks, and young birds are some of the prey items they consume in different portions of their range and at different life stages. Now there's certainly no debate that sausage links of ground meat of any type aren't part of the natural diet. That doesn't necessarily mean they're bad to feed though and they certainly may be superior in some ways.

I posted this before and it seems like it may have been overlooked, so I'll repeat it. The rabbit links don't have twice as many calories per their nutritional chart, but they do have about 5% more protein and once the casing is digested, would presumably break down and be assimilated much more completely since it's just ground meat with more surface area. Mice with incisions in the skin lead to faster growth rates in corns since they digest more easily/completely. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if the snakes eating links grow faster even if calories, protein, and all other relevant factors are the same between the groups.

Or more simply put, if you got a bag of 100 mice and pulled 50 of them out to grind into sausage links, I feel confident that the sausage links would lead to faster growth and superior nutrient retention since they would be more digestible and require less metabolic energy to break down when compared with the unaltered mice. Sure it's not the most naturalistic thing, but neither is thawing out a frozen rodent to feed to a snake on aspen bedding in a plastic box. If the desired outcome is superior growth/nutrition, it seems to me that the links would have to be a viable option if they are truly comprised of ground whole prey items. The sausage casings may be a confounding variable, but since they're supposed to be made entirely of beef protein and gelatin, that should just add to their nutritional profile.

 

[daddio207]

Which is it-rabbits are unnatural prey that they didn't evolve to eat or adult snakes sometimes eat small rabbits? If I'm being really particular, domestic mice aren't what they "evolved to eat" either. Hispid cotton rats, eastern moles, white-footed mice, anoles, skinks, and young birds are some of the prey items they consume in different portions of their range and at different life stages. Now there's certainly no debate that sausage links of ground meat of any type aren't part of the natural diet. That doesn't necessarily mean they're bad to feed though and they certainly may be superior in some ways.

I posted this before and it seems like it may have been overlooked, so I'll repeat it. The rabbit links don't have twice as many calories per their nutritional chart, but they do have about 5% more protein and once the casing is digested, would presumably break down and be assimilated much more completely since it's just ground meat with more surface area. Mice with incisions in the skin lead to faster growth rates in corns since they digest more easily/completely. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if the snakes eating links grow faster even if calories, protein, and all other relevant factors are the same between the groups.

Or more simply put, if you got a bag of 100 mice and pulled 50 of them out to grind into sausage links, I feel confident that the sausage links would lead to faster growth and superior nutrient retention since they would be more digestible and require less metabolic energy to break down when compared with the unaltered mice. Sure it's not the most naturalistic thing, but neither is thawing out a frozen rodent to feed to a snake on aspen bedding in a plastic box. If the desired outcome is superior growth/nutrition, it seems to me that the links would have to be a viable option if they are truly comprised of ground whole prey items. The sausage casings may be a confounding variable, but since they're supposed to be made entirely of beef protein and gelatin, that should just add to their nutritional profile.

Well put ..................

 

[DuxorW]

Well, the animals didn't grow any faster on the rabbit/chicken links. It's possible that if the experiment were done for longer that a modest increase in growth rate would have been observed, but I would expect it to be small if it is there at all. I had similar expectations that even if there aren't more calories in the links that they would be assimilated more easily, resulting in improved growth, but we don't always get the result we expect.