The "RIGHT" to Protect Yourself?!?!

[medusacoils]

Is it a right? I think so!

Recently, in NH, this law has come under the microscope. That is because you had to prove that you had NO other alternative then using self defense. The only exception was inside your own home. If you were approached at your vehicle by a person carrying a "weapon" (i.e. baseball bat, knife, firearm, etc.), who was trying to rob, rape or murder you. You had to make a split second decision to fight or flee.

Here is the kicker. If you choose to, because you had the means, fight. You had to PROVE to the police that YOU had no other alternative. You have to PROVE that YOU couldn't flee the situation or YOU could be arrested and charged. Assuming you survived the attack.

Here are a few articles and websites detailing NH HB160: "Castle Doctrine"

http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2009Alerts/AlertHB160.html

http://www.nhcitizen.org/modules/content/index.php?id=62

You can also do a search of this for yourself.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this?

Wayne

 

[Nanci]

We have a castle doctrine law in Florida. It's a big deal, to me.

The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.

 

[medusacoils]

We have a castle doctrine law in Florida. It's a big deal, to me.

The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.

As it should be!

In NH, there isn't a "Castle Doctrine" as law, it's a presumption. For the most part if you are protecting your home from a person who enters illegally, it's up to the police or prosecutor to determine whether it was self defense or justified. It doesn't expand to your property or person, outside of your home. It's determined on a case by case basis.

Wayne

 

[insomniac101]

Michigan's Castle Doctrine law is very similar to Florida's, which Nanci kindly posted. And this is as it should be! I am so tired of the thugs having more rights than the people they brutalize!

And yes, law-abiding citizens DO have a right to protect and defend themselves and their families! Maybe the turd thugs will think twice before trying to force their way into an occupied dwelling if they realize what they may be met with.

Kathy

 

[Outcast]

NM has an Open Carry law making it legal to carry a weapon as long as it is visible from 3 sides, Front, side it is on, and back. I have always wanted to carry my judge around town to see how many people would be freaked out about it...But, I wont, I want to get my concealed license so that I can carry my sig though...
1 thing that is dumb in NM, is that if you see a crime being committed and do nothing about it, you are as guilty as the people doing it.

 

[Karoni]

My husband is in law enforcement. He told me that in Virginia, if a person breaks into your home, you can shoot them. But, you cannot shoot them if they are outside your home about to break in or you could get in trouble with the law. You have to wait until they are inside your home. Arrrrggghhh!!

 

[Outcast]

My husband is in law enforcement. He told me that in Virginia, if a person breaks into your home, you can shoot them. But, you cannot shoot them if they are outside your home about to break in or you could get in trouble with the law. You have to wait until they are inside your home. Arrrrggghhh!!

You know, I love the "private property is not private" mindset that most people have these days... A guy can break into my shed, and because it is not part of my house, I cannot shoot him. I have to wait for him to break into my house and come at me...
Here in NM, you have to prove that deadly force was necessary, I know a guy that told his wife that if someone ever broke in and he shot the guy that she would get the gun and claim that she did it and she was afraid he was going to rape her... Because it is easier for a woman to prove that she is afraid for her life than a man.... I hate stupid laws, If someone breaks into my house, they better be expecting a 9mm or .45 to be coming their way... In fact, there have been a few instances when I almost pulled a gun on the UPS guy, because he tends to open the front door and place the package inside the door....
1) being prior service EOD, do not put a package inside my house without me looking it over. I am way to paranoid with that stuff, because I know how easy it is to make a bomb and send it to someone.
2) do not open my front door without letting me know you are there, I can hear a knock from the living room.:headbang:

 

[tsst]

Ohio's is also similar to Florida. They are however looking into it some. Criminals have started to abuse it. For example a drug deal gone bad and one person in the car shoots dead the other and tries to use the castle doctrine as a defense in court. I hope they don't weaken it because of criminal abuse.

 

[medusacoils]

My husband is in law enforcement. He told me that in Virginia, if a person breaks into your home, you can shoot them. But, you cannot shoot them if they are outside your home about to break in or you could get in trouble with the law. You have to wait until they are inside your home. Arrrrggghhh!!

Yeah, there is that whole intent thing?!?! We really can't go around handing out justice, just because we believe there is intent. I would hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive, but not shoot them. If they are in the doorway in my bedroom at 3am, then I have a nice Glock 9mm to greet them.

My pistol is only to buy me enough time to get my shotgun. I would rather not have to aim when I'm scared shyrtless, if you catch my drift.

In NH, you have the right to carry an unconcealed loaded firearm everywhere but a courthouse or a post office (Federal Law). You do have the right to petition your local police department for a concealed carry permit, which they hand out to anyone that isn't a Felon, been convicted of Domestic Violence or been deemed a defective by a court of law. Those cost ten dollars. I just recently submitted for my renewal. Takes 14 days to get.

That isn't the issue I'm talking about though. It's the right to defend yourself from a predator who may be trying to murder, rob,rape or kidnap you as you return to your car at midnight or whatever time it occurs. The way the law is now, you have to be able to PROVE that you couldn't safely retreat. If you have the means to defend yourself with a firearm, knife or whatever and cannot PROVE that you couldn't retreat. You could be arrested and charged.

This law has come to the forefront of news in my state. The last time a bill like this was voted on in the states house and senate, it passed but was subsequently vetoed by our Governor. Again HB 160 looks to or has already passed by the NH legislature. Hopefully it won't be vetoed by our Governor, again.

Wayne

 

[Karoni]

Pardon my language, Wayne, but that is unfreakingbelieveable! Sometimes I think our leaders have no common sense.

 

[Tavia]

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Not that I really think that one is upheld much in a lot of things. That is about like trying to prove a negative, in most cases, you will not be able to offer full proof that when you decided to fight, at no time were you able to break it off and get away successfully. Most civilians in that situation are not going to be law enforcement or army trained and will have to decide in just a few seconds what to do. Even people trained in those situations can choose "wrong" and unnecessarily kill someone out of no intent to go beyond what they thought was necessary.

 

[medusacoils]

Here is an excerpt from an article I found regarding this

The Concord Monitor reports “Four years ago, New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch blocked gun rights advocates’ effort to expand a person’s right to use deadly force in self-defense without first attempting to retreat. The legislation will be back this coming year, and this time, Lynch may not be able to stop its passage. Lynch’s 2006 veto was with the support of many in law enforcement, including then-Attorney General Kelly Ayotte, now a U.S. senator.”

“Bills have been filed built on the Castle Doctrine, which says a person has no duty to retreat from intruders before using deadly force. The legislation also would expand citizens’ rights to use deadly force in public or anywhere they have a right to be – known as the Stand Your Ground principle.”

N.H. State Rep. Leo Pepino, a Manchester Republican sponsoring one of New Hampshire’s bills, said his measure also would protect citizens from being sued by their attackers if the use of force was deemed justified by law enforcement.

“People shouldn’t have to worry about being prosecuted for defending themselves,” said Senate President Peter Bragdon, a Milford Republican who sponsored the bill Lynch vetoed in 2006.”

http://unmasker4maine.wordpress.com...ire-bills-filed-built-on-the-castle-doctrine/

Wayne

 

[medusacoils]

This is an article from today in the news

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...2011/03/03/nh_revisiting_use_of_deadly_force/

NH revisiting use of deadly force

CONCORD, N.H.—New Hampshire lawmakers are considering expanding citizens' right to use deadly force in self-defense.

The House Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee will hold hearings Thursday on legislation to let people use deadly force without first attempting to retreat. People also could protect themselves anywhere they have a right to be.

New Hampshire law allows the use of deadly force inside the home in defense against certain crimes such as rape. Deadly force also can be used in public places to defend someone else or to stop a rape, kidnapping or other serious crime. The law requires citizens to retreat if they can safely, except at home when they are not the aggressor.

Five years ago, Gov. John Lynch vetoed a bill expanding citizens' right to use deadly force.

Wayne

 

[KingCrimson<3]

I think it is important to recognize that victim or criminal, regardless of intent, guns possess deadly force and having access to one grants that person an enormous amount of power. I do not think that it is necessarily a bad thing to have to prove that certain actions were necessary in a given situation, and necessary action needs to be kept separate from possible or potential action. Deadly force should be reserved for life threatening situations, at least in theory, and putting that theory into practice might prevent unnecessary death.

Of course, my boyfriend just gave me a long lecture about how we can't live in NH now, and we have to stay in MA because of this, so I'm only offering perspective.

 

[medusacoils]

I think it is important to recognize that victim or criminal, regardless of intent, guns possess deadly force and having access to one grants that person an enormous amount of power. I do not think that it is necessarily a bad thing to have to prove that certain actions were necessary in a given situation, and necessary action needs to be kept separate from possible or potential action. Deadly force should be reserved for life threatening situations, at least in theory, and putting that theory into practice might prevent unnecessary death.

Of course, my boyfriend just gave me a long lecture about how we can't live in NH now, and we have to stay in MA because of this, so I'm only offering perspective.

This doesn't just apply to firearms, so lets take them out of the equation. Instead of firearms, insert pipes, bats, hand grenades, knives, swords, attack elephants, etc. The idea or argument isn't about or firearms, it's about your right to defend yourself and if necessary, meeting the threat of deadly force with deadly force. Put yourself in a position where you were coming out of work and met by two "people" who have you corned and are intent of doing you harm. You had the means and met that intent head on, leaving both men injured or dead.

Wouldn't you feel victimized again if you had to answer questions, were grilled as a perpetrator instead of a victim, regarding your RIGHT to defend yourself? Would you feel victimized again if you were arrested and charged for defending yourself? How about if you were actually convicted of a crime or sued over it? That would be a turning a tragedy into a travesty.

Wayne

 

[Allalaskan]

I am so glad I live in a state where I can defend myself and not have to prove my innocence after the fact of defending myself or my family.

Innocent untill proven guilty, not to many places where that still is fallowed.

 

[medusacoils]

What irritates me is that our legislature has voted to ratify the current system/law and our states executive office has chosen to listen to the minority and deny the citizens of this state, which is a great state, a really basic right. As usual, that executive office is held by a liberal, while the majority in the legislature is held by conservatives.

Regardless of that, in 2006 all three branches of the state government, like so many other states, were held by a Democrat/Liberal majority.

Wayne

 

[lilwing89]

I have a sign on my apartment "Beware of snakes", which I think deters a lot of people from breaking in. They probably imagine a 15 foot burm or something slithering around on my floor like a family dog, lol.

On the other hand, I sleep with an unloaded gun under my mattress. We have pretty low crime rates here, so it's highly unlikely that someone would break in, and if they did, it would probably be a stupid college kid. But you can never be too certain. I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself if I ever found myself in that position.

 

[Allalaskan]

I have a sign on my apartment "Beware of snakes", which I think deters a lot of people from breaking in. They probably imagine a 15 foot burm or something slithering around on my floor like a family dog, lol.

On the other hand, I sleep with an unloaded gun under my mattress. We have pretty low crime rates here, so it's highly unlikely that someone would break in, and if they did, it would probably be a stupid college kid. But you can never be too certain. I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself if I ever found myself in that position.

I hope you have a magazine loaded and ready to be loaded atleast, an unloaded gun is about as usefull as a rock.

 

[lilwing89]

I hope you have a magazine loaded and ready to be loaded atleast, an unloaded gun is about as usefull as a rock.

Of course. It's just when I'm sleeping, I like to catch a few lead-free Zzzs.