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to post or not to post.

tcr03 said:
well im going to post them anyway. you can make your own choice if you want to watch them.
Personally, it doesn't bother me to watch snakes eating live, I see shows like it all the time on the Animal and Discovery channels, but based on this answer, it doesn't matter if people said yes or no. You had obviously made your decision before you even started the thread.
 
dwyn127 said:
You had obviously made your decision before you even started the thread.
Bingo.

Less than 45 minutes passed between the initial inquiry and the the video post, with one person expressing a "yes" vote. I'd call that "chompin' at the bit".

Meanwhile, I just thought I'd reference this recent thread, for those who haven't seen it.

I feed live when needed, usually to entice a non-feeder. I don't have an issue with that.

But when you've seen one snake constrict its prey, you've just about seen 'em all. There aren't really many variances or creativity to the act to make it something to record for all posterity.

It's as if I went on a Labrador Retriever forum and posted a clip of my dog fetching a retrieving dummy. Those who own Labs have seen their dogs retrieve. It's pretty much in the job description. :rolleyes:

regards,
jazz
 
your all right. wanted to post it, but not if it was going to upset ppl. that was the purpose of me asking to post or not to post. and yes 45 min only passed and i posted it. after thinking about it more, if you didnt want to watch it, it was your choice. so i posted it. i guess i should of just posted it instead of going the route i did. i would still like for anyone that has seen it to tell me if they think the mouse i fed my snake is to big for her. she has regurged and im trying to figure out why.
 
I know this does not help your regurge issue but I don't see anything wrong with posting it. This is a snake forum and many people feed live, many feed f/t, many also feed both (me included). I feed and breed rats... they are food, that is why they live, that is why they die. Does not bother me at all. It is ... like most things, personal choice. Be smart, watch your animals, but it is your choice and no reason to flame anyone for it. He watched the feed, no problems (accept holding it down) and all is (was) well. I can understand him being anxious to show the clip... how many snake pics do we see where people are anxious about their new____________? A ton, and that is what it is about. Show the vid (I know you did) no big deal. As with all things, don't want to see it, don't view it!

Constriction is actually great exercise for the snakes too.

It may be that the prey was too big. Follow the procedure for a regurge and take it VERY slow... all should right itself.
 
Emanon said:
Be smart, watch your animals, but it is your choice and no reason to flame anyone for it.
I don't see anyone being flamed in this thread. Everyone's staying on topic and not attacking an individual, and they're expressing their opinions. :shrugs:

regards,
jazz
 
It is a bit difficult to judge the size of the fuzzy in comparison to the size of your lavender. It does seem at the end of the eating video that it may have been a little too big. Wait the recommended 10 days and then try a smaller fuzzy or large pinky.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Fenderplayer108 again.


Personally, I think the "thrill of the kill" is more often in the eyes of the beholder, not the animal.

I chose f/t after a 15min lecture from a herp vet on the perils of feeding live. Not only the physical bites, but the possibily of parasites. My brand-new hatchling was very parasitic to the point of refusing to eat. I believe the damage done at that early age was why she died at 5, with things going on inside her that my current herp vet couldn't explain.

Interestingly enough, my current three do not constrict at all, including my five year old. Of course, he's never been fed live, so that may make a difference. He's fed a small rat (yes, rat) every 7 days and is far from obese, so obviously he's getting plenty of exercise... or has the metabolism of a hummingbird.
 
Fenderplayer108 said:
Well, you cracked the nutshell with this post. The most common arguments presented for feeding live prey are that "feeding live is more natural for the animal - after all, no one kills their food in the wild" and "I like to give my animal a chance to hunt and kill because it really likes it."

The fact, however, is that captivity is not a natural state. Our reptiles and amphibians are not spending their days searching for food, hiding from predators, searching out favored microhabitats while avoiding aggressive members of their own species, hiding, vulnerable to predation and attack, during their shed periods. Instead they are housed (or should be!) in a comfy enclosure with all of their habitat needs met. If we wanted our animals to enjoy a natural state, we would never have acquired them.

As for needing the "thrill of the kill," that is anthropomorphism at its worst. What our reptiles and amphibians need is a large enough environment outfitted properly to give it enough mental and physical stimulation. For reptiles who are handleable, handling and that opportunity to be out of their enclosure provides the exercise and stimulation that they need, not chasing a rat or mouse around a small rectangular box.

Feeding killed is also safer for the reptile or amphibian. An animal who is not hungry will not eat. It will ignore whatever is going on around it. A prey animal left alone in a tank with a predator, however, is not so relaxed about the whole thing. Mice and chicks are usually terrified, spending their time cowering in a corner or trying to find a place to hide. Rats, however, come from bolder, and hungrier, stock. If left alone long enough with a disinterested predator, they will begin to eat whatever is around: your snake or lizard. Crickets and mealworms are similarly fearless and hungry. Rats have eaten their way into snakes, devouring the skin and flesh off their backs, exposing long stretches of backbone, even quite literally eviscerating them. Even crickets and mealworms will gnaw away at the skin and seek moisture from the eyes of healthy herps when left unattended in an enclosure without proper food and moisture for them. One of the most tragic things a vet or experienced herper sees is an otherwise healthy reptile or amphibian that has to be put down or is already dead from such prey feeding practices.

Live prey may also fight back during a feeding session causing severe injuries. Claws and teeth can bite through the mouth area, puncture eyes, cut through tongue sheaths, and puncture or slice through a coil of the predator's body.

There are those who will argue that it does not happen in the wild. There are also those who will argue that it does happen in the wild and that, being a natural occurrence, should not be avoided in captivity. It does happen in the wild. We don't see much evidence of it as the injured or crippled predator manages to hide away before dying or is itself preyed upon by another predator before dying or is scavenged after dying. I responded to a call where I found a wild gopher snake whose jaw had been fractured and half its tongue bitten off by prey who had successfully fought off a feeding attempt, its grossly swollen and bloodied tongue sheath dangling from the broken, crooked jaw.

Whether it happens or not, however, is immaterial. We are responsible for the health and well-being of our animals in captivity. That means keeping them properly housed, heated, humidified and fed. And that means keeping them safe from avoidable harm. :rolleyes:
Awesome post Fender :bowdown:
 
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