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trying new substrates

V

Vree

New member
Hi everybody!
I'm thinking about trying a new substrate for my 8 month old female. I'm using cage carpet now, but it's a pain in the butt to clean. Other than that, its ok, I just want to see if there's anything out there that'll work better. I've tried to find aspen shavings, but most of the pet supply stores I've gone to don't carry it. I know that ceder is a big no, but what about pine? Can anyone recomend something?
Thanks for reading this,
Vree
 
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well i guess you know that aspen and cage carpet are good... but I would recommend aspen! I use to use bone sand... it seems to work fine... just as long as you dont feed the corns inside the cage... but ASPEN should be used... you can use shreded newspapers or paper towels... their pretty good... the only bad thing is that it dont look that good... but ASPEN should be used... im not to sure about pine... I dont know the side affects... but I know the Cedar is a big no go! I think I read somewhere that most trees arent very good to use for corns, except aspen... so ASPEN should be used... but thats just me :)
 
yes aspen is great! it clumps into a little ball you can just scoop out every time the snake poops.
I use paper towels though because it's really easy to spot poop to clean it out. And paper towels are very available. If you really care about the appearance, don't use paper towels but otherwise it works fine
Of course ceder is verboten but pine..well I know some people use it but others have had bad experiences with it..it's too dusty, etc. You can try it if you want..
Aspen should be available at most petshops..they usually sell it for like rabbits and hamsters but it's the same good ol' aspen. Or you can order some online but it's good to order from a recommended site with a good reputation so that you know the aspen you are ordering is of good qulity
 
I saw some stuff at the agri-supply store the other day, it was chopped corrugated cardboard. about 1/4" square and being sold as a small pet bedding. I wonder if it would be suitable. It was brown and white- kidda looked like confetti.
 
substrates

I've tried to find aspen shavings, but most of the pet supply stores I've gone to don't carry it.
Click to expand...

Vree
You should be able to find aspen at a local Feed Supply store. It's the best substrate that I found! Pine is just OK for older snakes, but pine bedding in you snakes water could be toxic to them if a young snake drinks it. I have used it before, but there is no reason to take any chances. I have also used cypress mulch, It's dirt cheap, and a little dusty, but you can buy it anywhere.
Whatever you decide on as everyone knows NO CEDAR! It can and will kill your snake.

Good Luck!
 
Internet Source for Aspen Shavings

LLL Reptile.com - Internet Source for Aspen Shavings

Great prices on aspen. Originally found this with the Google search engine, which is a great way to find almost anything.

Whatever you do, don't use any kind of sand, even the Calci-Sand varieties sold for snakes. These are for desert snakes, not corn snakes. Even if you feed in a separate box from the sand, it will get in the mouth and vent as the snake moves around and can cause impaction and dehydration.

And yes, cedar is toxic.

Best,
Doctor Mike
 
pine???

i was warned off pine shavings (can't be entirely certain of this but this is what i was told) because they have alot of the same phenols (the oily compounds that cause the toxicity to reptiles) as cedar. from what i gather alot of the softer oily woods produce phenols only not as much... anyone know the validity of this let me know.... jim
 
Most Pine Wood Has Some Toxicity

There are many different species of pine trees, some of which have more aromatic hydrocarbons [such as phenols], and some of which have less.

Turpentine, creosote and carbolic acid [simple phenol] are all chemicals which can be derived from pine oils and tar. A common household example that contains a toxic pine derivative is Pine-Sol, which is used as a disinfectant.

Because of the above, I regard all pine wood shavings as potentially toxic to reptiles. The toxicity of most pine species is less than that of cedar [highly toxic, and thus useful in "cedar chests" to guard against moth damage to clothes], but is still considerable over the long term.

Why take a chance with your beloved snakes? Use aspen that has been heat treated to kill parasites. This is about as neutral a wood in terms of chemical toxicity as you can get.

I love my snakes and that's why I don't pine for them,
Doctor Mike
 
thanks for all the info!

I appreciate all the feed-back, i'll check out some other places for aspen. thanks again all who replied!
Vree :D
 
Re: Most Pine Wood Has Some Toxicity

Doctor Mike said:

I love my snakes and that's why I don't pine for them,
Doctor Mike
Click to expand...
doctor mike,
thanks for the info and the horrible puns. ;) i love reading your posts. always something interesting to learn. thanks, jim
 
My Cornsnake currently live sin a 55 gallon terrarium with pothos plants etc... but I'm not really happy with it. She seems to love it. I can't stand it though because I can't re-arange it. that my thing. When I get bored I clean my snake cages and mess with them. I know I shouldn't but it's a vice I have. With terrariums you have let grow for six months you don't mess with it.

I've found a new substrate I like alot though. Course builders sand. It's think sand people use for construction, it's part of the soil mix you use for terrariums. I've been using it for my California Kingsnake and it rocks. Being that snakes aren';t like lizards or frogs you don't have to worry as much about them digesting substrate. They only take in a little bit. He seems to love it though. He's got burrows and tunnels all through it and it picks up easy. It's also cheep as dirt. Hehe. I've been using it for two months now. In another month I'll decide if I am happy with it or will switch to something else.
 
Sand Verboten

Reed, I think you're courting disaster with using coarse builders sand for substrate. It might be good for desert snakes such as rattlesnakes, but not for corns.

[1] Too rough and "alien" to the natural habitat that corns would seek, which is more like that of a temperate forest or savannah floor. "Alien" = stress. I think this would also be true for your kingsnake, though they are much tougher snakes in general.

[2] Too dessicating--it will contribute to dehydration of your snake over 2 or 3 months, too slow to be obvious at first. How do I know? Been there, done that with Calci-Sand, and the dessicating properties of coarse builders sand are similar.

[3] Still small enough to impact from what I've seen of this. Corns will swallow sand in their homes even if you feed separately, and will also get it in their vents [cloacas].

When I started, I asked if I could use Calci-Sand since "it looked cool". I didn't know anything back then--being a people MD didn't mean I knew what I was doing with snakes without further training. I was told, "Well, we recommend aspen, but you 'can' use Calci-Sand if you want." WRONG! My corn Valentine nearly died due to impaction and dehydration from sand, not eating for 2.5 months as a hatchling, except that a brilliant vet friend of mine saved her.

Way too many tell beginners [me just 18 months ago] that they should do something, but that they can do another if they like, even if the "another" is harmful. I disagree with this. I want strict rules until I really understand the physiology and environmental ecology of animals and their habitat. Once you have a deeper understanding that comes with wide reading and longer experience, you can safely try slight variants while observing carefully.

Listen to the experience on this forum. Use aspen chips or plain white [no chemicals, no dyes, no scents] paper towel only.

See my link above for an internet source for aspen. Very cheap, you'll be glad you did it.

'As-pen' as much money as I need to care for my corns,
Doctor Mike
 
I'm using it with a california kingsnake. my cornsnake lives in a full blown terrarium. Yeah I wouldn't throw a corn into a desert habitat. The Cal King though does live in desert as well as many other regions.
 
wal-mart carries it

I buy my aspen substrate from wal-mart. It costs about 2.79 but is worth every penny. It lasts quite a while too.
 
Plain White Terry Cloth Towels

Hey maybe this isn't an authorized scientific material to use as a substrate, but I use plain, white, terry cloth towels. I tried the aspen that my pet store sold, but it seemed full of lots of tiny particles that I noticed on my snake's nose alot. This bothered me as I worried about respiratory infections. So, I tried the towels. They seem to work great. She can hide under them, they absorb poo, and they keep the warmth in like blankets. I wash them every week. Anyone else tried this?
 
Irish Rose...
Great idea.
I bet you could also use cloth diapers, even softer and they're easy to wash too. I used to have baby parrot, that I'd keep on diapers until he was feathered in and able to perch. I'd change the diapers several times a day and washed them. They were soft and fluffy, perfect on the naked skin of a young bird. I'm sure corns would love the stuff. And if you didn't like the white color you could dye them.
 
Plain white terrycloth towels or white cloth diapers sound great as long as you wash them frequently--you can't spot clean these like you can with aspen. And even with aspen, I change out the entire tank every week to 10 days.

However, DO NOT DYE THESE CLOTHS. Home dye kits leave a dye that diffuses out of the cloth more so than commercially vat dyed cloth from the factory. And any dye is potentially harmful to your snakes [some might be safe, some not, but it would be difficult to construct a table of safe vs unsafe].

Not "dyeing" to help,
Doctor Mike
 
Yeah it's not totally common but it;'s not unheard of either. There's nothing wrong with using them and honestly they can make a great substrate.
 
I have used ground corncob litter for the past year and the snakes seem to like it. It is loose enough to burrow in, very absorbent so I just have to scoop out a clump when they poop, and it keeps the odors way down. It is non-toxic and dust free, and I have had no problems whatsoever with it.
 
A friend of mine used it for a while and the only problem he saw with it was if the snakes dump their waterdish or get an excessive amount onto the litter it seems to mold very very fast under the heat lamps.
 
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