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Two corns in the same cage

Really, after reading all the links and threads there are about this subject, it's hard to see any good reasons for cohabbing. To save on space, all you have to do is get a rack system, which means more snakes in the same footprint!
It does seem to be a more common option in europe, I know I've seen pictures of adult corns co-habbing in very large vivariums, by which I mean the wooden box with glass front type, rather than all glass ones. Perhaps it would have more chance of working in a very large viv, rather than the 20 long glass tank?
This old thread came to mind though
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29956&highlight=cohab
 
lampy said:
I dont, and the word is potentially, possibly, ive kept cats ,we let them out despite the risks and seeing occaisional dead ones due to traffic, i think any risk here is relativly marginal.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think the cat vs. snake analogy applies here. A good amount of people will go out of their way to *not* hit a cat, or to help an injured one. Another animal relys more on instinct than we do, and will not have the same inhibitions.

Consider though, have your cats ever been in a fight with another cat, or even gotten into it with a racoon? Even in this case, other cats/racoons will generally try to avoid anything more than "exhibition fighting" (that is, they're fighting for territory rather than fighting to kill eachother). Snakes don't think like we do, or even like a cat would. We personify our pets because we care about them, but they do not have the complex emotions and thoughts we do. A snake sees something else move, realizes that it wants food, and strikes. There isn't really much more to it than that.

Simply put, it's your decision. If you chose to cohab, I sincerely hope you understand the risks. I also hope for the sake of your animals that no harm comes to them due to your decision. But that being said, don't expect the people who have seen the evidence and chosen not to cohabitate their snakes to agree with you, or to support your decision.
 
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Killademon - asking the same question over and over is unnecessary. When you don't get the answer you're looking for, then it's time to do your own research (and I recommend you use the search function before asking anything at all.) It isn't our job to keep giving you the same info, over and over again. I'm not being mean, I just don't want you to be offended because people dislike reading topics on the exact same thing :shrugs:

As for co-habbing snakes:
I agree, IMO the cat analogy does not apply. I believe that cats like to be allowed outside. They choose to come and go - one of my cats in particular becomes very upset when she's locked indoors and can't get out. I am a strong believer in not keeping cats indoors. I think they love freedom.
In a very different way however, cornsnakes do NOT like to be cohabbed.

I also feel that, yes, cats outside run a slight risk of injury, just as we do when we walk outside every morning. But unless your cat is locked in a box with a moving car or a fox, it isn't the same. Your cat can run away and be safe. Your snake has nowhere to go to escape what is upsetting it.

Janine - I don't know if wooden vivs do cut down on stress at all, but I know someone who cohabs around 4 corns in a viv just like the one you mentioned. I have seen signs of extreme stress in all the snakes and they do not feed well. I think it is probably seeing those snakes in that way that has made me so against cohabbing, to be honest... it kind of upset me. The trouble is that it isn't just the owner who has to live with any consequences - the snakes are the ones who will suffer for it, sometimes irreversibly. The fact that you can't see stress doesn't mean it isn't there.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to get at people who cohab corns. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Everything I stated is just a personal opinion. I, personally, would never even think of keeping two snakes together unless I had an emergency. (Tank catches fire, nowhere to keep a snake... you know the sort of thing.) But again, that's just my opinion.
 
Pliss, I'm totally with you on personal views on keeping them seperate, but I do know that co-habbing's been said to work, by some people, under some circumstances.
I've no desire to try it myself, even if I won the lottery and could have a room-sized viv! If I'd seen what you describe I'd have had trouble keeping my thoughts to myself. I once caused a rift in a friendship because I couldn't ignore flystrike on a former friend's dog that she insisted was 'nothing'. I'd known the dog since he was a puppy, and couldn't believe my supposedly caring friend could let him suffer.
 
diamondlil said:
Pliss, I'm totally with you on personal views on keeping them seperate, but I do know that co-habbing's been said to work, by some people, under some circumstances.
I've no desire to try it myself, even if I won the lottery and could have a room-sized viv! If I'd seen what you describe I'd have had trouble keeping my thoughts to myself. I once caused a rift in a friendship because I couldn't ignore flystrike on a former friend's dog that she insisted was 'nothing'. I'd known the dog since he was a puppy, and couldn't believe my supposedly caring friend could let him suffer.
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Absolutely, and I respect that some people think cohabbing is okay. Maybe it can work. I just have my doubts.

I know exactly what you mean - I think what I saw set me against co-habbing so much because it just upset me - the corns were obviously stressed out, and I just couldn't understand why the owner was leaving them like that. She even talked about adding another corn to the viv!!! :shrugs:
 
Yeah, this subject has been discussed to death. But I think that sometimes people get turned off when they read opinions based on research on the topic vs. opinions based on actual experience. I think both types of opinions are valid, but maybe someday I'll start a thread for people who have actually cohab'd extensively to give their stories. Here's mine:

In the late 80s and early 90s, I kept communal groups of corns together. These groupings were random, and I had males with females, and juveniles (but not hatchlings) with adults. There was no public internet, and the limited literature supported the practice (specifically, Michael McEachern's book). I saw lots of signs of stress that I didn't recognize as such, e.g. regurges, refusals, and jerky/twitchy behavior. I also saw a great deal of male combat. This was VERY interesting, but the smaller males really took a beating, though no real physical injury resulted.

Then I had an underaged, under-sized female Miami lay eggs. I was so inexperienced that when she stopped feeding prior to the lay, I took her to the vet. The vet was terrible, said she was dehydrated (didn't even recognize her gravid condition), and actually hydrated her with with a hypodermic needle! A couple of weeks later she laid about 20 small eggs. She was so skinny and weak afterward that I really thought she was going to die. She survived, but she never really bounced back.

I did a terrible job incubating those eggs. I think five actually hatched, but one of them was very weak and died. I kept the other four together in a 10gal tank. I was fortunate that they didn't eat each other, but then I made an unfortunate move. I bought another hatchling at a pet store, brought it home, and put it in with the other four (hey, there was more than enough room). The pet store hatchling had mites and of course they were spread to the other four. What a royal p.i.t.a. cleaning up that mess! That was when I started figuring out on my own the value of separate housing and quarantine.

And almost a couple of decades later, I don't even entertain the idea of cohabbing. Plastic tubs are cheap, so there's just no need. I still think that an experienced keeper can pull it off under very controlled circumstances, with select groupings, but I'm not going to do it. But even if I had no experience with the practice, I'd heed the warnings of some of the very experienced members here.
 
lampy said:
I dont, and the word is potentially, possibly, ive kept cats ,we let them out despite the risks and seeing occaisional dead ones due to traffic, i think any risk here is relativly marginal.
Click to expand...

I put this logic right up there with second hand smoke doesn't hurt your children, driving drunk is a victimless crime, and beating one's child is a parental prerogative.

The Cat Fancier's Association, the world's largest cat registry, estimates the life expectancy of free roaming cats to be 19 months vice a life expectancy of 10 plus years. depending on breed, for cats not allowed out of doors unsupervised. When I bred cats I refused to place a cat with a home that allowed free roaming. I believe people who let their cats roam free to have a wanton disregard for the safety of their pets.

While I can't cite any statistics on the mortality rate of snakes housed together vice those kept separate. I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to know a snake kept separate is more likely to survive than one housed with other snakes.

People who knowingly put their pets' safety and health at peril should never keep pets...AND should practice the most reliable methods of birth control.
 
As some say its a matter of opinion, after much research and discussion the decision was made, the 2 snakes are healthy,feed and shed well, are lively and not twichy and in a 4 foot wooden viv with 3 hides and a log. If i thought they were stressed i would rehouse but as there fine im ok with it. My point is whilst there may be a risk, it is in my humble opinion marginal enough to be accepted. I of course wouldnt try and force the others to accept my way as i wouldnt expect them to try and slate my opinion or assume people who do cohabit are somehow animal abusers, after all its only your opinion.
 
oh and the cat in question, sweep is now about 6 years old and has been a roamer most of his life (and in a weird mirror of behavior his sister sooty hates the outdoors as it means leaving the comfort of a radiator!)
 
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