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two questions about star gazing

T

Tiras

New member
  1. I have read in a number of threads about testing of SG while using a parent which is S-factored. Considering the fact that the babies will be possible S-factored, what do you do with them after the hatch?
  2. Considering the fact the gene is common with snakes which their growers/breeders are not aware of, isn't it a loss cause to remove the gene from the genes pool? Isn't it beneficial to hold back on the issue and to accept the fact that from time to time a hatch will occur that a quarter of it will be SG?
 
1. The animals are removed from the gene pool either through making them pets and giving them away to people that have no intention of breeding them or the clutch is culled.

2. Why would it be a lost cause if lines are established that are proven to be SG free?
 
If you search, there was one, if not two, lengthy discussions about this exact subject very recently.
 
The second part is rather like saying that it's a lost cause to try to breed out hip dysplasia or epilepsy from a particular breed of dog.

We have yet to know, I believe, how stargazing affects older corns, for all we know, as they age it could cause a worsening of neurologic effects. It could be linked to other problems. It could... stay the same its whole life. We don't know at this point. But it doesn't change the fact that stargazing is a sad thing to look upon.
 
  1. I have read in a number of threads about testing of SG while using a parent which is S-factored. Considering the fact that the babies will be possible S-factored, what do you do with them after the hatch
  2. Considering the fact the gene is common with snakes which their growers/breeders are not aware of, isn't it a loss cause to remove the gene from the genes pool? Isn't it beneficial to hold back on the issue and to accept the fact that from time to time a hatch will occur that a quarter of it will be SG?
1: As cruel as it sounds, I will feed my kings most likely..

2: The gene is out there.. I would not say not common, but we are aware of its existance obviously.. Do I think its a lost cause? No, because I am not the person that will knowly let animals loose to propgate more possible problem childern.. Lets face it, we have come so far with selective breeding trying to bred the best corns we can with our mutants, I am willing to make an effort to try to sell SG free animals that I can... I believe a few years ago, Stargazing showed up in some Bloodred striped animals that had no sunkissed influence.. *shrugs*

Shari mentioned...

We have yet to know, I believe, how stargazing affects older corns, for all we know, as they age it could cause a worsening of neurologic effects. It could be linked to other problems. It could... stay the same its whole life. We don't know at this point. But it doesn't change the fact that stargazing is a sad thing to look upon.

They act the same way as they did as hatchlings.. I have near breeding sized females that are homo SG.. Believe me, they might have an ackward time hitting thier prey item the first or second time, but their personality makes up for it in their sunkissed ways..

Connie from CCCorns has been working on this project for a few years, and she has also cunducted an autopsy.. The results were inconclusive to being related to hearing and other organs.. Seems to me, there is obviously something under laying that is at work,..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
Sorry, my phrasing was bad. I meant older as in geriatric. Those reaching middle and the later stages of their lifespan. Sort of how epilepsy might not bother a younger dog so much, but as they get older things like arthritis begin showing up a bit earlier than it might otherwise, and how the seizures often get worse.

My mom's dog had epilepsy and did pretty much okay until she was 5 and then went rapidly downhill with arthritis and kindling. Now, I understand that stargazing is not as severe as epilepsy on the body so far as we know, but I don't think anyone yet has a stargazer in their second decade. Does someone?
 
I apologize for the late respond. I just had hatchling of my own (it's a boy:dancer:), so I've been bit busy.
In my country there was no occurrence of SG till now. I believe I have the "honor" to be the first one in my country that hatches SG.
The parents (ghost & anery) are siblings and their parents are both anerys. No sign of sunkissed.
Although it has a big delay to my project plans, I'm gonna do the right thing.

Thank you all for the information
 
If a neurologic problem shows up in a morph that is not known or suspected to carry stargazing, and it's just one hatchling, how do you know it's "stargazing," and not just some random other neurologic problem?
 
Actualy it's 3 hachlings out of 17, and they all showing the SG symptoms. I also watched few SG film-strips and it look like it.
here's a pic
 

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Hello!

About this SG "problem" I have a questing...

Do all the snakes with Star gazing showing just these problems, (looking into the sky, swinging around with the heads (fast))?

I don´t know but I have one hatchling here that moves strange..
It looks like the star gazing moves but not with the head..
The strange moves begins 5-8 cm down to the body...

It seems to me that he/she don´t have control over the body.. The tail is holding on in the bodys lower part (just like the body is a tree or something) and sometime he/she roll over.

The hatchling looks into the sky sometimes but he/she don´t have the fast movements with the head that I have seen in some short movies...

2 photos

hope_orig_SE.jpg


hope2_orig_SE.jpg


Now if he/she has star gazing what should i do with he/her and the rest of the siblings???

The clutch are from 1.0 Anery vanishing stripe het amel, hypo (import Holland i think) X 0.1 Anery het motley, hypo, amel (from a silver queen motley X snow clutch. The Silver queen are a import from Holland)

Thanks
//Millan
 
Looks like SG to me. As for the clutch either put them all down or make sure they never breed.

Unless you want to use the parents to test your other snakes for the SG gene, I suggest you retire them.
 
Okey!

Not a happy ending...

The mother are retire from this moment..
The father are already gone... He was found dead in his viv one day.. I don´t know why but he just went to sleep.. Actually he died the same day as the mother laid her eggs...

One h*** of a joke...

So these hatchlings was my hope to save something from my very special male...

I have to take e moment to think about this...


Thanks for the straight answer...
/7Millan
 
If you are looking to save the male's genes you can save back all of the males of this clutch and raise them up. One by one (year by year) breed them back to mom until you get no gazers in a clutch, then breed that male back to her the next year just to be sure even then you cannot be 100%. The hatchlings of all these unions will have to be destroyed because they themselves could be het for SG.

It would be a long, drawn out, and painful process but you will have to make that decision.
 
I know..

All my hope for some nice hatchling after my male is gone...

The only thing I have to take a moment to think about is if I should put them all down or find them a "non breeding" home.

But one question before I decide:

How can I know for sure that this is star gazing and not any other strange behavior???
I noticed this behavior when the hatchling was about 3 w old...
Before that it behaved just like all my other corns...

Just a thought...

Regards
/7Millan
 
This is where problems start. Is it really gazing or is it an entirely separate neurologic issue? Is it congenital rather than inherited? I have a feeling that any sort of neurologic issue in a snake has a very very good chance of presenting as stargazing. Trauma, ingestion of toxins, tumors, rabies, encephalitis of various causes, spinal cord issues can cause odd motor movements in animals. Remove the toxins and rabies from snakes, and that's still a large list of things to consider.

When do we truly call it gazing, and when do we call it a neurologic deficit?
 
Ok, guess I am a bit unexperienced with all the star gazer issues, but I have no idea that a corn having NO Sunkissed genes could have star gazer.

VERY INTERESTING!!

Can I ask, where did those of you showing signs of star gazer get your breeding parents from? I know you might be comfortable saying so right out in the forum. PM me is you want to.

I am just a bit curious thats all.

PJ
 
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