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Two regurges.... wish me luck for Sixx

Geminiluna

Geminiluna

New member
Sixx has regurged twice. I'm afraid for him. Sixx is my first snake and I'm following everything by the book as far as I can tell.

He's got an awesome feeding response and took his first meal like a champ and kept it down through successful elimination. At the second meal, again, he took it with real enthusiasm, but I found it regurged next day. I covered his tank with a towel to keep down environmental stress from household activity, checked the temps in his warm area daily, and waited 10 days to next feeding which was Saturday. Again, he took the meal like a champ, and I immediately covered the tank with a towel and let him alone. This morning (Monday), I found the pinky rugurged.

I don't know what to do. Something obviously is not right with how I'm keeping him if he's regurging. He doesn't appear to be in shed, but I'm not handling him to be able to look closely at him. Doing everything I can to avoid stressing him!

* 1 inch aspen bedding
* UTH heater with Hydrofarm thermostat over center on glass keeping his temps at 84 F
* ZooMed infrared temp scanner
* Hide over the warm spot (but he goes under the hide and lays on the glass, which is where I've been confirming the temperature since that's where he gets his 'belly heat')
* Pinky meals have been f/t, and have been allowed to thaw in warm water sufficiently and have been about 2 grams in weight.

Like I said, I've got his viv covered with a towel. It's not in a busy area of the house to begin with - it's just an extra consideration. I'll keep monitoring the temps and wait ten days and try an even smaller meal next time - will see if the pet store has a pinky under 1 gram in size, or I'll cut one in half length-wise. And will try a prayer and crossed fingers as well.

If you all have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I'm going to search again through old threads and see if I've overlooked a key to this...
 
From what I have read, a lot of people just use a pinky head for a first meal after a regurge, instead of trying a full pinky immediately. Something that might help him as well is Nutri-bac. It helps restore digestive juices.
 
Thanks, Clickslither! I just found a FAQ post by Kathy Love that talks about Nutri-bac and think it was that post or another that talked about just the pinky head after 10 days, and a slow progression beyond that. I'm bookmarking and taking notes! The link to Kathy Love's site for Nutri-bac is broken but there is a herp show in Indianapolis this coming Sunday and I'm betting I could find some there.
 
Did he shed in that time period?

You need to get Nutribac. It is critical at this point. Kathy Love has it. Carolina Pet Supply has it. If you Google it, you can easily find it.

Okay, then I would wait 8 days and feed ONLY a pink head, in NB. If that stays down, in five days, 1/3 of a SMALL pink. If that stays down, 1/2 a small pink. If that stays down, the other half. Then the 2/3. I would continue to serve pinks cut into thirds or halves until he is up to peach fuzzies, and would use Nutribac for 4-6 months.

Good luck- unless he has a physical abnormality, you have a good chance of recovering from this, but you need to be very, very conservative so as not to risk another regurge, and you need Nutribac immediately. I would NEVER feed this snake when blue, for his lifetime.

Kathy Love link
 
Thanks, Nanci, for posting the link. I just ordered the Nutri-bac from Kathy's webstore.

No, no shed unless he burrowed in the substrate and deposited the shed where I can't see it. I highly doubt that though - he doesn't seem to be the burrowing type and visually, he just didn't seem to be working up to a shed at any point.

Ummm, does the rest of the frozen pink body keep well in the freezer after cutting to size (i.e., cutting off head, or cutting 1/3, etc.)? Or will I have to dispose of it and each time, cut a "fresh" pinky? Wondering if the cut part of it will get freezer burn and be an issue. If so, I'll be sure to pick up a couple extra frozen this weekend.
 
The parts keep just fine. You can actually snap the frozen head off. It's kind of fun, once you get over what you're really doing :) You just seal the parts in a plastic bag to prevent freezer burn, and minimize the time outside the freezer.
 
Gem, are these two regurges back to back? If so, that is deadly serious. If it was two intermittent ones with several successful feedings in between, I would suspect either temps or feeding when blue. Either way, follow the above advice, but just know if they are back to back how careful you must be, and if not -make sure something isn't wrong with your gradient.
 
Yes, Chip - they were back-to-back, and so I'm very concerned for him.

I wondered about taking him to the vet. We actually do have an Avian/Exotics clinic about 20 minutes from here. I'm trying to limit his stress as much as possible and wonder if that would be more harm than good. But pose that question out to you all as experts. Sixx is just a baby ... he was 8 grams when I got him a few weeks ago and I am worried about stress causing this.
 
Stress causing the regurges? Unlikely if you've been caring for him properly and not over-handling him. Where did he come from? And he only had one successful feed? Is he active as usual now?
 
And- if Sixx doesn't make it for some reason, it's not your fault. Some babies just don't make it. If the breeder didn't keep the baby long enough to make sure all was well- then those babies go off to pet shops and no one knows what their history is or if they've ever been fed successfully. So IF anything happens, please don't give up on snakes.
 
Nanci, I got him from a petstore in town. Yes, a successful feed two days after I brought him home. I've avoided handling him and the only contact with him has been to lift his hide to use the temp scanner to check the temps.

Gosh, for my first snake, he "looks" ok. He doesn't look limp, dull, lifeless or anything. His eyes appear bright and his skin appears healthy, and no obvious indications of illness. As far as activity - he stays under his hide. I know he comes out at night because that's where I've found both regurges in the morning - atop the aspen bedding in the cool side of his habitat. The couple of excretions I found had been formed properly, per what I guess a normal excrement should be for a snake.

But here's what's changed... I took the "pleco cave" out that I used for a hide and replaced with a cardboard mini-cereal size box. I was afraid the thick clay of the pleco cave was not allowing heat to penetrate. He stayed inside the pleco cave, but now stays under the cardboard box. I also had an infrared heat lamp on the cool side because temps here in Indiana are cold, but after reading a number of posts on the topic, I turned it off, and have remained with just the UTH controlled by Hydrofarm t-stat, and once or twice daily using my temp scanner to verify things are ok.

Maybe I should go back to the previous furnishings. Or maybe I'm overthinking it.
 
I tend to think decoration is neither here nor there. What are your high and low temps from one end of the tank to the other? These problems are usually temperature related. And FWIW, by the time a reptile looks visibly ill or listless; it is in bad, bad shape.
 
Chip,
I just measured it. The low temp is 69 on the furthest side and 82.5 at the glass, center of UTH. The thermostat is on the "heating" cycle and should get to about 84 again. (It was 84 when I measured it this morning upon finding the regurg.)

I've wondered if I need to buy a second UTH and thermostat and put on the cold side, to keep in the low 70s during the winter when we struggle to keep the house warm here in Indiana, and shut it off during the summer. Or go back to the infrared lamp.
 
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IMO your enclosure is too cold. A hot spot of 82.5 on the glass is on the cool side if the snake was laying right on the glass... which it isn't. Any bedding is an insulator. Check the temp on top of the bedding, and that is what your snake really has for a warm side. Plus air temps are clearly cool. We can get you dialed in, but do not offer food until you get temps stabilized.
 
Just now: On top of the bedding, cold side 69.5; warm side 73.5.

Let's get me dialed in! I'm wanting 84-86 on top of bedding on warm side? I really misunderstood this - I posted a thread about this previously and took away from it that I wanted ~84 degrees at the glass above the center UTH because that's where Sixx hangs out. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126312

I'm working at home so can bump up the thermostat and take readings through the day both at the glass and on the top of the bedding. And can also afford for another UTH and controller for the cold side if it sounds like it might be required through the winter months to keep it at the low 70s.
 
I Haven't had a lot of regurg snakes but what I found for the ones I have had is I feed only the head and I slice it up pretty good with an exacto knife this may or may not help them digest faster and easier haven't done much research on it to say for sure but I figure it cant hurt. When I raised Rat snakes I used to slice up the whole mouse just putting small cuts in the body not dismembering it.
 
Chip said:
IMO your enclosure is too cold. A hot spot of 82.5 on the glass is on the cool side if the snake was laying right on the glass... which it isn't. Any bedding is an insulator. Check the temp on top of the bedding, and that is what your snake really has for a warm side. Plus air temps are clearly cool. We can get you dialed in, but do not offer food until you get temps stabilized.
Click to expand...

I've always been told you are supposed to measure hot side at the glass. Snake will burrow to the glass if necessary, no? Mine does. The 82.5 was probably about as cold as the warm side gets if the stat was set for 84.

I have my hydrofarm set for 84 and the temp ranges from about 82 to 86.
 
This is where air flow/ambient room temperature plays part. The snake is regurging, and the OP edited, but had listed the surface temp of the warm side at 72 or so -too cold. Will they burrow? Many certainly will, but if the animal is in otherwise good health and vomiting, it must not be or else it's too cold. Unless the food item was too big, smart money is on it being temperature related... and it's not too warm. I set my own surface temps for 86, but offer a gradient. This is why I get uncomfortable giving advice here -too warm is far more dangerous than too cool, and if someone takes away nothing but the number 86, they could cause themselves some real problems.
 
^ Not trying to pick fight. You no doubt have more knowledge than I do on the subject. But the OPs original post - that is not edited - states the warm side is 84 at the glass and you actually mention that 82.5 (not 70 or so) is a little cool for the warm side (which it may very well be).

I took exception, as I read your post (that I quoted above) to suggest that the top of the substrate should be measured for the warm side. In doing so, there would be risk of burning/harming snake should they actually burrow. Of course it is entirely possible I misinterpreted the point you were trying to convey.
 
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