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Unhealthy hatchling?

JaketheTick

New member
I have a hatchling, who is basically normal, except that from its cloaca down, the tail is misshapen, kind of curled and lumpy, and its hemipenes appear to stay partly extended through its cloaca. Its a shame, because its a beautiful hatchling, a het. anery, het amel. I assume this means it will never be able to breed. Does anybody know what this is? Just some sort of birth defect?
 
yep. it's probably just some birth defect probably from inbreeding. You should deffinetly cull it, you don't want breeding snakes "het." for something bizzare like that!
 
Got a pic?

Sounds like what is commonly refer to as "kinked". If so, this is an inheritable trait that is undesireable at best.
 
As far as inbreeding goes, I don't see how it could be inbred, seeing as how I bought the parents from two different dealers, who are reputable, and bred the snakes from lines they have kept, etc. As far as being inheritable, i dont think ill breed the mother anymore anyways, she problems laying the eggs to begin with, took a long time and the last couple I ended up having to work out, since one turned almost sideways, and of all of them, this was the only one that hatched. Yeah, I think im going to give her an early retirement. Dont have a pic right now, but will shortly. Its a shame, very colorful snake.
 
HAHA Dude. any cornsnake of any morph is inbred. Period. She doesn't mean you intentionally did it, what Cav is saying is that cornsnake morphs are created by inbreeding and any morphs out there today can have genetic faults from this pop up. Maybe.

All cornsnake morphs came from an original snake. You could buy from 5 dealers or breed brother and sister and get the same effects.

bmm
 
Hold on a sec...
Why is the cause assumed to be inbreeding?
Couldn't it also be caused by environmental factors, like strange temps during incubation, or exposure to a toxin?
Or even just a genetic defect, not caused by 'inbreeding'? I mean, cystic fibrosis is inherited, but I would not call someone affected by it 'inbred'.

Now, since the snake is het anery, het amel, it could be from amel x anery breeding, or a snow x normal breeding. The 2 parents don't have to be related at all, the only inbreeding neccesssary is what was needed to make the morphs express themselves. With the time that anerys, amels, etc. have been around, I don't think they are all really related that much anymore. (As in, if you randomly select 2 anery corns from 2 different breeders, they won't be nearly as related as siblings or cousins are)
 
Every amelanistic corn snake in the world originated from that one some dude caught.(can't remember his name), so maybe that deffect has been hidden in your snakes ancestry for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years, and is just now showing it's self.
 
I guess it could be stated that every corn is inbred to a degree, but I don't think that inbreeding is the only possible cause of this deformity.
It could be due to temps, etc like pinatamonkey said.
 
Besides all of which, it would take MULTIPLE generations of direct (ie: brother/sister; mother/son; etc.) inbreeding for ANY genetic defects to be gin to show themselves. I think it is far more likely that your snake is kinked due to some outside effect (temps during incubation, lack of vitamins in your female during gravid period, etc.). I certainly would not immediately assume it was genetic and never breed the female again. At least not based solely on the information at hand.
 
I'm not a 'qualified' snake breeder by any means but have done alot of research so I'm 100% informed when I do decide to breed my snakes. From what you've said I would say it was environmental factors, like Pinata and Darin said. Especially seeing as you had problems with your other eggs. I read that 'kinking' (which I would guess is what your hatchling has) is caused by incorrect incubation temps or poor humidity. That's from the corn snake bible itself...

Jmo though...
 
Ok....for those of you stuck on the inbreeding is present in every morph snake scenario, I made the reasonable assumption that it was understood, that inbred meant within say five or six generations, after a few generations, the defects are so unlikely, you wouldnt consider say, breeding ANY two amels together inbreeding. Generally breeding COUSINs together isnt even considered dangerous, all snakes are inbred in that they all have a distant relative that was inbred. Based on the all amels are inbred logic, most likely all HUMANS are inbred...it's irrelevant...not that it's a serious matter or what not, just figured I'd give my 1/2 cent worth.
And I'm starting to think it was environmental...the humidity was fairly low, but the temp was good, about 81-82. Kept them on sphagum-vermiculite mix, worked great for the other clutch from my ghost corn, i think 12 out of 13 hatched. Oh well, its still a shame, im going to get a pic on here if i ever have time.
 
I don't believe inbreeding caused this snakes problems either. But I do like to make it clear that all of these morphs are inbred. If that causes issues or not, I think its important to let people know about it. :D

bmm
 
I just hatched out 18 eggs (out of 20 laid) from 2 Cremsickles that were not related in any way. Out of the 18, one was born with a kink and died. All had the same temps (81*), in same incubator, with sphagum moss. The rest are doing great. The mysteries of life...
 
You say "not related in any way"

ALL morphs are RELATED! Almost EVERY morph was created off ONE snake in the beginning. ALL MORPHS ARE inbred!

Although creamsicle being not full corn probably has the least relation.

bmm
 
bmm, My point was that they were not a brother-sister or father-daughter etc. mating. They were from 2 different breeders. Of course there is always the chance of blood being crossed somewhere along the way, but I don't believe the kink was due to inbreeding by any means.
 
ok, you asked for it you got it....

A pic....you cant really see but its hemepenes(sp?) are stuck out, and stay that way, and it hasnt it yet at 5-6 weeks.
 

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I incubated at 81 degrees, and had another clutch right beside it at the exact same temp of which 11 of 13 eggs hatched and are perfectly healthy, the other two shriveled with in days of hatching. I dont know....
 
hmm probably just cause they were second clutches. I had two encephalized snakes from a second clutch that I cut open the eggs and found half developed babies with their spines all kinked (I had pics but I can't find them)...

it just happens, probably not your fault
 
About inbreeding....

I think inbreeding is pretty much the equivalent of burning old ladies in Salem Massachusetts back in the colonial days, blaming their misfortunes on those poor women as being witches and the cause of the problems.

How many of you give you animals vitamin supplements? How many of you blood test your animals for RH factor incompatibilities?

Why are people blood tested prior to getting married?

Certainly no one I know blood tests their animals, so let's take a look at the vitamin supplement issue.

Suppose there is some vital amino acid or mineral that corn snakes may need to have in their diet, or something will not function properly. It may not be immediately detrimental, nor even visible, especially in the first generation. But the animal is growing up without it, regardless. Then they are bred and produce babies, which have already started out life with this deficiency, so perhaps there might be a cumulative effect. Even if you have completely unrelated animals, they ALL are suffering from this deficiency, so it really doesn't matter whether they are related or not. So on to the next generation, although you are outbreeding your animals, you are still compounding the problem with each successive generation.

Eventually, this deficiency may begin to manifest itself. And in 101 times out of 100, people will say it is the results of inbreeding. But in reality it could very well be a husbandry problem.

Many people will tell you that there is no need to use vitamin/mineral/amino acid supplements for snakes because you are feeding them whole rodents, which is what they feed on in the wild. Rubish... Those rodents out in the wild are no where near what we are raising ourselves or buying frozen from suppliers. Rodent chows might be OK, but they certainly cannot be providing everything a wild rodent may be feeding on in it's natural environment. It is THAT food source that snakes have evolved having as their supply of nutrients. And whatever that wild rodent may have in it's gut at the time it becomes a snake's meal, is what also goes into being nutrients for the snake.

We give ALL our animals supplements. As soon as the babies have established a good feed response, they are provided partially dusted pinkies, and from then on this is provided for the rest of their lives.

So I still get some animals with kinks? Heck yeah! But considering the numbers I am dealing with and the percentages, it is way lower than one might expect. But that's just the way it is. Life is not perfect.

As an experiment, go to the maternity ward in your local hospital and ask about deformed human children. Contact some of these poor unfortunate parents and ask them if they are inbred, which may be the cause of their deformed baby. After you are done picking your teeth up off of the floor, let us know the results of your study. ;)
 
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