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Venture guesses on 2 Morphs?

EmbersMom

EmbersMom

And then there were three
Hi, I am new to snakes, Herpetologist at the Zoo where hubby works said corns are best pets, so we're now into corns! A month ago we adopted an Amelanistic 2 year old male (probed by the herpetologist today to be sure) for our 8 year old (9 next month) daughter. His name is Flame and he is wonderful. Anybody know exact morph? He was advertised as a Creamsicle, but I have yet to see that listed as an official morph? Is that just slang?

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I decided I wanted a snake, too, and adopted a 3-4 year old male (probed today, too) on Monday. Here is what I wrote on the picture caption in my album and here is his pic:

My husband works at a large Zoo so we have access to expert reptile care and advice (but I am glad to be here!). He had no idea on the exact morph of Ember. This picture does not do him justice. He is not orange and grey. He is copper and silver. Very beautiful, shimmery, truly aglow. He is triangle shaped, and his underbelly is almost white, yellowish....with not very much pattern, just a few light-silver checks. The only thing I can find remotely like him is:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101281

or

http://www.sunshineserpents.com/Corn Snakes/Rosy Rat Snake.htm

Are these the same or ??? I am totally confused. IF anybody could help with the morph I would be so appreciative. He is also big - over 5 feet. He is very timid and recoils a bit at first touch but is fine if given a minute to wake before being picked up. Once picked up likes to move and is very curious. Very strong and thick through mid-section. Herpetologist was impressed, really liked him. He was on display and handled at the Children's Museum in Santa Fe, NM for a while but was not handling the kids' tapping on the glass very well like the previous snake did. (But did FINE with being handled, has never bit or struck out). So he was fostered until I found him, his cage, his rock hide, water bowl, warming rock, warming light, cage, lid, etc. on Craigslist for $60 a week ago. I love him already.

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Thank you in advance for any answers or help. I am just so curious about the morphs...............
 
Creamsicle is a hybrid, so the amel is not a pure corn snake but a cross between a cornsnake and an emoryi rat snake. :)
 
I would say flame was a creamsicle, but a closer shot of his head might help more knowledgable members! On a side note: heat rocks are not a good thing to have in his cage. They don't feel heat very well through their scales and can get serious burns before they realise its too hot! Love embers colours! Welcome!
 
Looks like one to me. :) Most amels have way more red and orange, and way less yellow, and Flame looks plenty yellow. XD Also, if the seller knew about the creamsicle "morph" (i.e., hybrid), (s)he has most likely identified it correctly. :)

Ember looks to me like a dark Miami locality, or possibly an Alabama locality (to me, anyway). Localities aren't actual "morphs" in that they're not genetic, just the result of natural selection in certain areas. Does he look anything like any of these snakes? I normally wouldn't post pictures of other people's snakes (sorry, Heather... >.>), but these are the only adult Alabamas I know of, and while I'm at it, Heather has some gorgeous Miamis. XD

Mica <-- Alabama female
Silber <-- Alabama male
Katzen <-- Alabama female
Kaia <-- Miami female
Maia <-- Miami female

Of course, the light belly checks do indicate that there is some sort of morph involved. We need a belly picture to make a positive ID, though. :)

And yes, heat rocks are dangerous for corn snakes. Even some species of desert lizard have been burned by them, and their ideal temperature is often over 100 degrees! Heat lamps can cause the same problem; they just get too hot for corns. The ideal setup for a corn snake is an under-tank heather (UTH) on a thermostat or rheostat. Corns need belly heat, not ambient heat, and much lower temperatures than most reptiles, so virtually any heat source has to be on a thermostat. Exposing a corn to temps of more than 90-ish degrees for extended periods of time can cause irritability, regurgitation/vomiting of food, and even death. :/
 
When I said heat rock I mis-spoke - just a nice flat rock under the heat lamp next to the rock hide for him to bask under the heat lamp while digesting if he wants. But good to know - we were considering one for the feeding tank. We will 100% avoid now. THANKS!

MarieK - Will get a close up shot of Flame's head tomorrow and post it. Thanks for the suggestion! They were pretty sure he was a creamsicle, and the owner has had snakes all his life, so probably right to trust his knowledge of his morph.

Lycari - I would say NO to the Alabama & Miami examples mainly because there is just absolutely NO black border between his copper and silver. And the head/eye pattern is just not there. His head just sort of fades to silver. Nothing like Mica, at all. And I will also get you a belly shot. Thanks so much for your efforts so far. I really do love his colors. I was not impressed at first (I saw him in the dark at first) but seeing him aglow copper and silver (not orange and grey) was just amazing...........you can see it a bit in the picture but it just does not do him justice. Might have to play around a bit with lighting and try and capture his true beauty..........
 
Also, about Ember........Herpetologist mentioned possibility of seeing traits of grey ratsnake in him? Does that mean anything to anybody? I think he mentioned it after turning him over, so I will for sure post his belly pic in the morrow. :)
 
Again, a head shot of ember would help. I find the eyes are slightly different and they have a deeper head profile. Pretty snakes whatever they turn out to be!
 
If Flame was sold as a Creamsicle then I would say that is what he is and therefore he is a hybrid like mentioned earlier. Ember is most likely a corn from the Keys locality. They tend to have plain bellies (no checkers like a normal corn), and have a silver and orange color.

This is two pictures of my male Upper Keys corn.
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I agree (with your e-mail), the male does bear a strong resemblance to my Boot Keys. I had actually looked at this thread earlier and was going to respond later.

There are two different morphs- Rosy Rat, which is what you were told he was, which is a hypo-ish normal, most often with reduced to no belly checks, on a pale creamy belly. I guess that would be more correctly labeled a "phase," since you don't know the exact locality unless you can trace the lineage back to WC. (My Boots come directly from WC parents). These might also be called Keys Corns.

Then there is the Rosyblood, which is different from the Rosy Rat in that is also carries what appears to be a diffused gene. Now for the confusing part- Kastanie, originally discovered in Europe, is found in Rosybloods. So my Rosyblood, Fred, is registered as a Diffused Kastanie...At any rate, the Rosybloods usually look a lot different than Rosy Rats, and have a lot of red "bleeding" on their bellies.

I would not hesitate to call your male a Rosy Rat. The designation as a sub-species has been dropped, for now.
 
EmbersMom said:
Also, about Ember........Herpetologist mentioned possibility of seeing traits of grey ratsnake in him? Does that mean anything to anybody? I think he mentioned it after turning him over, so I will for sure post his belly pic in the morrow. :)
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I work with snakes purportedly carrying gray rat blood and I don't see it in yours. "Frosted" saddles are said to be one marker for a corn with gray rat bloodlines :)
 
MarieK, head shots coming......(they sound like models).

Iguanagirl.......When did you sneak into my house and steal Ember? I am convinced they are the same snake. Can't wait to compare belly shots (coming soon, too!).

Nanci, thanks for the info.......I did read (after I sent the email) on your "Projects" page that you had not bred your pair yet, but then became convinced Ember was another captured Boot or Upper Key guy. It sort of makes sense because he is a little more timid (maybe being wild caught vs. captive bred) on first approach.

Off to snap some pictures............... :)
 
I agree with Nanci, not an Alabama.... looks more like a "keys" type corn. Here are some of our Alabamas to compare to:

Gray- http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=90800

Sunshine- http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=90362

Bamajam- http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=97621

Al- http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/ViewAnimal.aspx?AnimalID=90798

If you go on the Iherp page you will see a couple of outcrosses too...

Whatever it ends up being, It is a awesome looking snake :)
 
Hello fellow New Mexican. I am in Albuquerque as well! If it was sold to you as a cream then I would say it is. However, that head doesn't look like a hybrid but I am still a novice. Even if it is a cream, flame is still a very beautiful scalebaby and if you don't ever plan on breeding him then it wouldn't matter.
 
Here is a picture of Ember's full underbelly:

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Here is a picture of Ember's underbelly mid-section' which oddly enough reminds me of cooked salmon and makes me hungry:

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Here is a picture of Ember's underbelly neck section:

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Here is a picture of Ember's head:

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And here is a rare picture of Ember before he goes back into his rock hide after being put back into his tank. I think you can see some of his copper and silver in this one. When we have him out of his cage and he is on the bed or whatever, he is so keen to hid under anything. Does that indicate wild caught or anything? He basically LIVES in his rock hide (or has for the 5 days I have had him! :crazy01:

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OK, go for it, all you wise corn snake morphmasters! :bowdown:
 
Hello, BeautifullyWild! No, I don't think I got Flame from you. He was sold to me by someone who had him as a pet and had to move from the Q for 6 months for a family emergency and could not 1) take him or 2) find him a temp home so they had to sell him (or "rehome" him for a $100 fee on Craigslist). They raised him from a hatchling (is that the right word?) but did not say where they got him, so he might be one of yours. No, we never plan on breeding either one of them. There are enough animals in this world (in no way am I casting negativity on breeders) so we will leave breeding up to the experts. I am glad to have someone on here in Albuquerque who is a corn snake expert. The herpetologist at the Zoo knows snakes overall, and knew a lot about corns in general and knew Flame was Amel, etc. but did not know all the specific morphs, etc. Nice to meet you. I hope I never need you, but glad to know you are close if something goes wrong with Flame or Ember! :)
 
Oh no I don't sell corn snakes... I was just saying if they said it was a cream when you bought it then it is more than likely a cream.

I am flattered but I am no where near an expert. I just love corn snakes. I am planning on breeding but not til next year.
 
Well, I am still glad you are here! :) You know way more than I do! I would love to come over and see baby corn snakes. I am sure my daughter would love it, too. I doubt we would get any other chance. We have two boys, so no "Oooops" going to happen here! ;)
 
Thanks a lot, Buzzard! He looks the most like the 2009 Alabama Male. But I still keep going back to the Boot Keys. I will be interested in comparing the belly shots to Nanci's Boot Keys, or anyone's Alabama's. This is so fun, interesting and addicting. Like I need another addiction.

Those are some pretty snakes, especially the 2nd one that is all silvery. Thanks for sharing.
 
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