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What is this snake?
- Thread starter TonySr
- Start date
TonySr
New member
No offense taken I'm just trying to understand what characteristics are used in naming corn snakes. The motleys you showed have a more or less solid color down there body lengths with spots spaced intermitantly. So is this the main characteristic that determines if it is to be called motely no matter what colors the snake are?
As for the RO, thick white coloration around the saddle is the determining factor. Can the body color and saddle color be different and still be considered an RO, as long as there are thick white markings around the saddles? Or is there more to it? Thanks for taking the time to explain. That butter is really nice. Mel's a great looking snake, can't wait for him to bulk up. Already thinking of building a multi-layered viv.
As for the RO, thick white coloration around the saddle is the determining factor. Can the body color and saddle color be different and still be considered an RO, as long as there are thick white markings around the saddles? Or is there more to it? Thanks for taking the time to explain. That butter is really nice. Mel's a great looking snake, can't wait for him to bulk up. Already thinking of building a multi-layered viv.
susang
New member
RO is an amel just a different coloration of amel. As for motley the most distinguishing factor in both motley and stripe is a solid belly no checkers. This is my ghost motley het stripe you can see the belly no checkers her spots are elongated and she is het stripe because she carries a stripe gene but is confusing because her mot spot is long.
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TonySr
New member
susang, Tyflier, thanks for the comparisons. All are great looking snakes. Ireally like that pumpkin orange on that male RO. Can see why you can't stop with just one. Have found www.serpwidget.com and have been going through its genetic tutorial. Either I'm not quite understanding or there may be a couple of errors in the punnets. Have to go over it more. I will be having more questions.
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Sorry to not get back to this thread earlier. To answer your question about the amels posted on my website in my morph gallery...under "Amelanistic Morph", they are ALL "just plain" amels...no different variations other than individual variations. The photo of Don Soderberg's Reverse Okeekee is what I consider a good example of that morph. It has good white saddle borders as well as a rich saddle and ground color. In the past several years, I've seen a tendency for people to label any amel with wide white saddle borders as an RO, no matter how the saddle and ground color look. Personally, I think that is wrong as the name "Okeetee" is associated with more than just saddle borders. There has to be that rich saddle and ground coloration as well. (And please, I don't want to get into the locality part...just the ideal look.)
The other variations of amels are the candy canes and the sunglows. Candy cane amels come in either a red or orange variety, depending upon their saddle color, but their main distinguishing look is that they have as white a ground color as possible. The size of their saddle bands is of no importance, but many breeders are going for the look of the wide saddle border, which may be why the RO's are losing their ground color...there seems to be a mixing of RO's and candy canes, IMO, resulting in "poor" examples of each and what I refer to as "wide-bordered vomitmels".
Sunglows are amels that have very little, or ideally, no white. Some breeders have added hypo to the mix and there is some confusion as to whether the name "sunglow" should be reserved solely for the hypo amels with no white, or if any amel with no white can be called a sunglow. Many people refer to many amel motleys as sunglow motleys, but the motley gene tends to decrease the amound of white anyway, so, IMO, the use of the name "sunglow" with motleys is wrong.
With all the different variations in amels, it is important to remember that there is still only one recessive gene in amels. The variations are just different line-bred looks that took years of selective breeding to create. If you bred a Reverse Okeetee to a Sunglow, you will get all amels that will probably look like your "plain" amels as the 2 variations will probably cancel each other out. You may get one or two individuals that look like either parent, but you CANNOT call the offspring "het" for either Reverse Okeetee or Sunglow.
Motley is another simple recessive gene that affects the pattern of the corn snake. It causes the saddles to be joined in a "motley" pattern (that has a wide variation in and of itself) as well as removing the belly checks. The motley gene is located at the same locus as the stripe gene, but is dominant to stripe phenotypically (a snake with one motley and one stripe gene will look like a motley, but when bred to a homozygous stripe, will produce both homozygous stripes as well as more motley "het stripe" snakes).
So TonySr, you have a very lovely amel. And please don't expect to fully understand all of corn snake genetics in just a week or two. I've been at it since 1995 and still don't have it all, especially since we're still discovering new genes and information!
The other variations of amels are the candy canes and the sunglows. Candy cane amels come in either a red or orange variety, depending upon their saddle color, but their main distinguishing look is that they have as white a ground color as possible. The size of their saddle bands is of no importance, but many breeders are going for the look of the wide saddle border, which may be why the RO's are losing their ground color...there seems to be a mixing of RO's and candy canes, IMO, resulting in "poor" examples of each and what I refer to as "wide-bordered vomitmels".
Sunglows are amels that have very little, or ideally, no white. Some breeders have added hypo to the mix and there is some confusion as to whether the name "sunglow" should be reserved solely for the hypo amels with no white, or if any amel with no white can be called a sunglow. Many people refer to many amel motleys as sunglow motleys, but the motley gene tends to decrease the amound of white anyway, so, IMO, the use of the name "sunglow" with motleys is wrong.
With all the different variations in amels, it is important to remember that there is still only one recessive gene in amels. The variations are just different line-bred looks that took years of selective breeding to create. If you bred a Reverse Okeetee to a Sunglow, you will get all amels that will probably look like your "plain" amels as the 2 variations will probably cancel each other out. You may get one or two individuals that look like either parent, but you CANNOT call the offspring "het" for either Reverse Okeetee or Sunglow.
Motley is another simple recessive gene that affects the pattern of the corn snake. It causes the saddles to be joined in a "motley" pattern (that has a wide variation in and of itself) as well as removing the belly checks. The motley gene is located at the same locus as the stripe gene, but is dominant to stripe phenotypically (a snake with one motley and one stripe gene will look like a motley, but when bred to a homozygous stripe, will produce both homozygous stripes as well as more motley "het stripe" snakes).
So TonySr, you have a very lovely amel. And please don't expect to fully understand all of corn snake genetics in just a week or two. I've been at it since 1995 and still don't have it all, especially since we're still discovering new genes and information!
TonySr
New member
Thanks, Susan. Got my copy of Kathy and Bill Love's book going through it now. I have used the info to try to determine Mel's sex. And believe Mel is Actually a Melani. I have tried The popping method on three occasions and the candling method. Being a very green novice I'm not 100% but almost sure Mel is 0.1 (female). Hope I got that right, thanks susang.
Will try to head out to a reptile show this Sunday at the, Dupage County Fair Grounds, here in Wheaton IL. which is about 20min. from me to take a look see and pick up some mice. Who knows???????????????
Will try to head out to a reptile show this Sunday at the, Dupage County Fair Grounds, here in Wheaton IL. which is about 20min. from me to take a look see and pick up some mice. Who knows???????????????
