What Substrate/Bedding Do You Suggest?

[Gintha]

Heres my experiences:

Astro-Turf... big no no LOL.. it provides a VERY ideal habitat for bacteria! (its what I use to grow my bacteria in school LOL.. so this is a tested scientific theory!)

Repti-Bark... I wash it, then bake it for 3 hours to dry it out and kill and creepy crawlies.. I have found bugs, worms, and mites in it in the past.

Yesterday's News cat litter... works great! But looks like.. well.. cat litter! Can develop "hot spots" in the viv where the surface substrate temp was higher than the surface glass temp above the UTH. (around 5* higher)

Newspapers... works well.. but too messy.. covered my snake with ink, and me too.

Aspen... doesn't smell like newspaper! *giggles* great for burrowing, easy to spot-clean, and the heat comes through it evenly.


Just as an aside... pine DOES have aromatic oils, watch Norm Abram for 24 years and you'll know its a fact LOL (New Yankee Workshop *thumbs up*) Other than that... I looked in the encyclopedia =P Its listed as 3rd highest for scent (AKA aromatic oils) which are not removed by kiln drying. I pulled out the snake book I ordered from the CVMA and looked this up, the Veterinarians are split 50 / 50 on the effects of pine oils on snakes, so really its up to the owner to decide. =) Its generally a fact that aspen is safe, and it costs less than pine, and I have yet to see a bag with preservatives (most pine I've seen has preservatives in it =/). I can tell you 100% sure pine DOES cause problems for mice, since I stopped using pine my brood has endured longer lifespans (51.75% longer to be exact). The ones I did necropsy's on showed advanced signs of respiratory illness and hardening of the lungs (lung hardening is a primary effect or prolonged exposure to breathing hazards, like aromatic oils, according to this book on lungs in Dad office). The necropsy's of the ones who died after being on carefresh their entire lives show only normal causes of death, primarily, cancer.. the #1 cause of death for rodents.

 

[Tegucentric]

does the amount of mills really count? ive seen double milled cypress mulch but what exactly is this referring to. i think it has something to do with the fineness of the cypress mulch.

I don't think I'd use cypress either. If its anything like the cypress mulch that goes around my house, its splintery and rather irritating after prolonged exposure. Its really meant to be used as a moist bedding, for those larger boid species that require a high humidity. I would think it'd be incredibly dusty and splintery if kept dry.

Single milled is large and jagged.
Double milled is smaller and less jagged.
Triple milled is fairly fine and not jagged.

I use it for other reptiles I have, so I do occasionally use it with my corns when I have a need to do so. It does not get extremely dusty if there is any sort of humidity. The type of dryness required to make it dusty, would be bad for cornsnake anyways. It works really well to hold in humidity so when I use it I never, ever, have any shedding issues. I do normally use aspen or paper, but when a corn is having a shedding issue I move it into a 10 gallon of humid (not wet to the touch) triple milled cypress mulch and in a couple days the shed is over and the snake is returned to the normal bin.

The stuff you use around your house is single milled. (large and jagged)

Rick

 

[Tegucentric]

Newspapers... works well.. but too messy.. covered my snake with ink, and me too.

I agree. I use plain white typewriter paper, but butcher paper works well too.

it [aspen] costs less than pine

Unless you live in New England where pine hsaving are about 1/4 the cost of aspen.

Rick

 

[Gintha]

Really? Well... lucky you guys hehe... pine is $7 10 cuft block... aspen is $25 for ermm... 75 or 100 cuft... I forget what the bag said ~,~ Its a US product.. so I hadda chuck the bag before Dad threw it, and the aspen, out of the house LOL. He loves his Canadian made goods!

 

[Taceas]

it [aspen] costs less than pine

Really? I'd like to know where.

Unless you live in New England where pine shavings are about 1/4 the cost of aspen

A big bale of pine shavings from the local Rural King store costs me $4 or so. It weighs about 20lbs. I buy the largest bag of Kaytee Aspen I can find at Petsmart, the size escapes me at the moment, for $13.

And now I'm buying big bags of Sani-chips through Surperior for over $20 per bag. Although, the Sani-chips seem to go a lot farther per bag than other shaving styles.

 

[jaxom1957]

Yeah i think so. Pine also gives off a lot of oils. I really don't know all the ins and outs of it but is important not to use them.

The danger of using pine is more theoretical than demonstrated. Pine is related to cedar, but contains a far lesser amount of the aromatic volatiles that make cedar unacceptable as bedding. Most of what it does contain dissipates when the shavings are created. The same argument was made in using cedar or pine as nest box material for birds. Cedar has demonstrable toxins; pine has yet to be shown to create a problem. I used it for years when raising cockatiels, and am using it with my snake. I tried a cellulose bedding, but found it difficult to keep clean and prone to hold moisture. I went back to pine, underlined with newspaper. I plan to use pine underlined with paper towels for my new baby snakes. I like aspen as well, and may change it up at times for the sake of variety; I don't know if the snakes get bored with the same old floor covering year round, but I do. (c:

I will take one important precaution, but I would be doing it no matter what bedding material I was using: I intend to place the babies in a separate tub for feedings, with only white paper towels on the bottom. This will eliminate the chance of any bedding material being ingested with the meal.

 

[JTGoff69]

You do realize that you are responding to a post made almost a year ago right? :sidestep:

 

[jaxom1957]

You do realize that you are responding to a post made almost a year ago right? :sidestep:

I had gone nearly 72 hours without being reminded that I am an incomplete moron (can't be a complete moron: I never finish anything)....

For your consideration: If a post falls in the the forum and noone answers it, does it really make a point?

 

[ickle_moose]

LOL, nice dig from the archives! Nice to see someone using the search function around here. I agree, if you have something to say that's potentially helpful to other members, post away

 

[squashy]

i just use good old repti bark fairly cheap, no problems, really top notch stuff although it does make my tank seem a bit dark

 

[JollieMollie]

I use sand in my tank. I've used it for almost three years now, ever since my snakeypoo was about eight months until now. I've never had any problems. I was just curious what problems keep other people from using it? It's really easy to clean up as it clumps and defecation is easy to see, it looks great, she occasionally burrows in it with no problems.... just wondering what the potential problems are. (-:

 

[Markey]

Interesting reading. When we first got Markey I used the astro turf. I had several pieces so I could switch them out easily while the other one was soaking in bleach water. I didn't care for it so I switched to Repti Bark. I loved the look and it held moisture really well. I used that for three years. My healthy corn developed a slight RI (they weren't even positive she had one but I wanted her treated) and I started reading that the Repti Bark has a lot of dust which can cause respiratory issues. I got spooked by that and picked up a bag of Aspen. I don't care for the way the aspen looks in the enclosure as I have a 6 foot 260 gallon setup with hundreds of dollars worth of vines, plants, etc.....and to see that pale substrate on the bottom of the enclosure just bugs me.....but if it's safer for Markey then that's the way it's going to be!
I did notice that my temps changed within minutes of adding the aspen. The temps were lower with the Repti Bark (same depth of substrate used) than they are with the aspen. My temps are reading 82 degrees on the warm side without a hide and 93 degrees INSIDE the hide. The 93 temp is too high so I've added a layer of aspen and am currently doing new readings.
This will be settled before Markey girl goes back into her enclosure. Side note......Markey has been in a different tank for many weeks while I make changes in her setup. :0)

 

[Lennycorn]

I use sand in my tank. I've used it for almost three years now, ever since my snakeypoo was about eight months until now. I've never had any problems. I was just curious what problems keep other people from using it? It's really easy to clean up as it clumps and defecation is easy to see, it looks great, she occasionally burrows in it with no problems.... just wondering what the potential problems are. (-:

I grew up on the beach with sand but I never saw a corn snake. Only when I when to the Pine barrens did I run across one.
And only with damp sand was I able to make tunnels. Dry sand colapes.
Sorry but I don't feel like doing a search on it now but their are problems with using sand. And I hope you not going to say the you feed in the Viv too.

Aspen is the way to go.
Enjoy.

 

[Silt]

I use sand in my tank. I've used it for almost three years now, ever since my snakeypoo was about eight months until now. I've never had any problems. I was just curious what problems keep other people from using it? It's really easy to clean up as it clumps and defecation is easy to see, it looks great, she occasionally burrows in it with no problems.... just wondering what the potential problems are. (-:

"Pine shavings, corncob, and sand are no good because they can easily become ingested and lead to impaction." http://www.reptilecare.com/CornSnakeCaresheet.htm

"Sand should also never be used because it can result in impaction and your snake dying." http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-30-page-1.html

"As a substrate for the cage remember the three "don'ts". CEDAR, ANY BARK, SAND and GRAVEL." http://www.cornsnakes.net/care.php3

"Reasons not to use sand:

-Risk of impaction.
-Sand gets under the scales and irritates the snake.
-Sand would surely be really annoying for the keeper... sand just gets everywhere! In your clothes, in the carpet, under your fingernails...
-I don't think it is the best for corns to burrow in... like I said, the whole under-the-scales thing.
-Where I live at least, sand is very expensive compared to aspen.
-Sand may get in the water bowls, etc etc...
-And also I don't know how sand would absorb heat... maybe it would get too hot, or not enough?

Sure, sand looks nice, but visual appeal is the LAST thing on my list of priorities... comfort for the animals and ease of maintenance should be the first things you think of." Post #3 written by Plissken: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39685

I expect some people will find faults in my little list up there but hey, that's just my opinions. I don't think sand is a good idea at all.

Check out some of these threads regarding the dangers of sand:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42136
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39685


Lisa

 

[PtDnsr]

Yeah...what Lisa said. Sand isn't part of a corn's natural habitat. Aspen isn't necessarily either but it's hard to mimic it perfectly. Aspen seems to be used what's most among people here and it's what I use for all of my snakes (from ball pythons to western hognoses to corns and kings) except the big boas. It's cheap, easy to clean, and the kind I use actually does clump with the poo to make it easy to clean out.

~Katie

 

[snakemom1961]

I use to use repti bark for Tiaga, but after coming here and reading about it I switched to aspen and will never switch back. Bree(our baby) I have on repti bark for now because I feel it is easier to look for regurges, but as soon as she's grown a bit and is eating fuzzies with no regurges(just fed her, her first fuzzy last nite) I'll be switching to aspen for her also.

 

[JollieMollie]

So, just curious..... has anyone had complications using sand? I've heard about some risks (thanks for all the links, that was nice of you Silt), but never heard [anywhere, but I do have limited experience] of it actually causing a problem.


I'm also curious about the impaction issue; I've heard it a lot but I really don't understand. Impaction refers to complications due to ingesting sand, yes? I'm not seeing quite how a snake would ingest the sand... I'm sure aspen would cause problems if ingested, too (-: but of course snakes don't eat aspen. Why would they get sand in their digestive system? Unless you fed them in their cage and large amounts of sand stuck to the mouse, I guess.... not really clear on this. I'm on my way to bed, I will read the links within the next few days. If they already give some real life examples of comlications, my apologies. (-:



One reason I prefer sand to aspen, btw, is because I'm guessing aspen is quite a bit more expensive actually. Sand is very easy to spot clean, and so it doesn't need complete replacement for long periods of time. It's also not very expensive in the first place. At least around here, aspen costs maybe $7 or more as I remember for the smallest size packages. Since it is more absorbant, fluffy, and moves around more, I picture it getting dirty easier, being difficult to spot clean [needing instead complete replacement], and retaining offensive scents. Maybe not, but that's what I picture. (-: So unless there are some real dangers even with good care or another pressing reason, sand seems to be a reasonable choice to me. I am intersted in other opinions though, that's why I'm here. (-:

 

[JollieMollie]

edit: oh, and no I don't usually feed her in her cage. (-: She has a nice full sized paper bag that says "MJ's Diner" on it with a drawing of corn that she eats in.

 

[lefty_mussolini]

Old thread brought back up, but still a good basic topic

I have used sand for a couple of different animals. Besides the impaction issues (impaction can be caused by ANY loose substrate), here is what I've noticed as far as problems with sand:

As mentioned before, it gets EVERYWHERE. And when it does, it is ridiculously hard to clean up.

Though spot cleaning may be easy on sand, it has absolutely no odor absorbing qualities. It clumps, and stinks and that's it.

It can get VERY hot in the hot spot. This could be ok for desert dwelling lizards if you also offer them a good climbing basking spot, but for snakes that are primarily ground dwelling, it can lead to burns.

It will not hold shape when the snake burrows. It just buries the snake.

It gets in the water bowl.

It gets all over the snake.

If you use that "Calci-Sand" rubbish, it stains the snake.

It seems to stick to the snake so that every time you handle the snake you are taking out a big handful of sand that will get all over the outside of the viv.

As far as aspens advantages over sand...

It does absorb odor very well.

It is easy to spot clean without having to worry about tiny little grains of sand.

It holds shape so that if the snake burrows, it won't be buried.

It maintains a good temp.

If it gets outside of the viv or into the water bowl, it's easier to clean up than tiny little grains of sand.

Those are my reasons for thinking that aspen is better than sand.
And you can get Aspen at Petsmart for quite cheap. A huge bag (I can't remember the exact measurement) only costs $12. There are also websites that you can order pretty cheap aspen from.

 

[PtDnsr]

One reason I prefer sand to aspen, btw, is because I'm guessing aspen is quite a bit more expensive actually. Sand is very easy to spot clean, and so it doesn't need complete replacement for long periods of time. It's also not very expensive in the first place. At least around here, aspen costs maybe $7 or more as I remember for the smallest size packages. Since it is more absorbant, fluffy, and moves around more, I picture it getting dirty easier, being difficult to spot clean [needing instead complete replacement], and retaining offensive scents.

Are you looking in the reptile section for aspen or the small critter section? One thing I have noticed is that if they can put it in a pretty package and label it for another animal they'll raise the price. Aspen is aspen so you can go to the small animal section and buy the really big bag and it's the same stuff that comes in the small bag that's for reptiles.

~Katie