SnakeAround
Formerly Blutengel
I'm not used to the 20L size, can you tell me the size of the floor space?
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Which Snakes Can Live together?
- Thread starter Ivorzz5
- Start date
I'm not used to the 20L size, can you tell me the size of the floor space?
Hypancistrus
New member
In US inches it's 30" x 12". In metric, approximately 75 cm x 30 cm. Industry standard for an adult corn.
ZoologyGirl
Under Tank Heather
As of right now I have the little/young ones in 10 gallon aquariums (I believe that is 20x10 inches or 51x25 cm), and the adults in 20 gallon Long aquariums (30x12 in or 76x30 cm). I keep my black milksnakes and green tree python in appropriate sized rubbermaid tubs, and when I get more cornsnakes I will be moving to a rack system using the rubbermaid type tubs and using my aquariums more for favorite/showpiece corns.
SnakeAround
Formerly Blutengel
If I split the floor space of my co-habbed corns by 2, they even have more floor space individually then your separately housed corns and thus the industry standard 
(they are in 90 x 60 cm vivs). So, obviously saving space is not the reason, at least not at my accommodations, as mentioned earlier. IMO, my larger corns need more space to roam around, so I co-hab for the opposite reason: providing more available space per snake actually :dancer: I am not putting 2 snakes in a 1 snake sized viv, that's what many people think apparently when they hear people co-hab their snakes.
The rack system in the best way to provide large floor space for many animals I think, but I have done that and did not like that. I like to see my corns wander around and doing their thing. Maybe it was the design of the rack I used but the humidity was too high for my corns. Further I read that their had been tests for fungus on the skin of snakes in racks versus vivs, and that showed there was much more fungus present on the skin of racked snakes. That did it for me; no more racks for me.
(they are in 90 x 60 cm vivs). So, obviously saving space is not the reason, at least not at my accommodations, as mentioned earlier. IMO, my larger corns need more space to roam around, so I co-hab for the opposite reason: providing more available space per snake actually :dancer: I am not putting 2 snakes in a 1 snake sized viv, that's what many people think apparently when they hear people co-hab their snakes.The rack system in the best way to provide large floor space for many animals I think, but I have done that and did not like that. I like to see my corns wander around and doing their thing. Maybe it was the design of the rack I used but the humidity was too high for my corns. Further I read that their had been tests for fungus on the skin of snakes in racks versus vivs, and that showed there was much more fungus present on the skin of racked snakes. That did it for me; no more racks for me.
Hypancistrus
New member
If I split the floor space of my co-habbed corns by 2, they even have more floor space individually then your separately housed corns and thus the industry standard
What happens if one of them regurges? Or if you notice an unusual fecal deposit that seems to indicate parasites?
You then have to treat both snakes even though only one might be infected.
This doesn't even begin to take into account the risks of accidental breedings of too-young animals, nor the risk of two males becoming aggressive with one another. All of these are risks that the average new keeper may not be aware of.
Again, in my opinion, I see no reason to house two snakes together when they generally do not prefer to be together in the wild and it is so easy and inexpensive to house them seperately.
As far as racks go, I've noticed no difference in my corns behaviors in racks versus vivariums. I would eventually like to move all of ours to cages, but that will be for ME... I like the ability to see into the snakes cages, and racks don't quite offer unlimited viewing. I don't think the snakes will care one way or the other. They have warmth, food and dark places to watch without being seen. That seems to be all my corns want one way or the other.
seriously
I love it when people make these declarative statements. Snakes are solitary. Snakes avoid each other. Snakes are stressed by each other. That is not always the case and making those absolute statements makes people sound foolish. Let's go to nature shall we When I lived in florida I would go out herping all the time. Turn over a board, 4 corn snakes. Yup they could have all picked a different place but here they were. That was a frequent occurrence by the way not a random exception. There was a large abandoned building that had never been completed. I used to go out there and inside there were always corns and yellow rats everywhere in the rafters. Frequently right next to each other. Yup. They had all that space in the building. Room enough that none of them ever had to see each other and yet many were clumped in the same areas near each other. So give a rest. Some snakes under the right conditions can live together with no problem whatsoever. AT least that's what nature says. I guess some people here know better.
I love it when people make these declarative statements. Snakes are solitary. Snakes avoid each other. Snakes are stressed by each other. That is not always the case and making those absolute statements makes people sound foolish. Let's go to nature shall we When I lived in florida I would go out herping all the time. Turn over a board, 4 corn snakes. Yup they could have all picked a different place but here they were. That was a frequent occurrence by the way not a random exception. There was a large abandoned building that had never been completed. I used to go out there and inside there were always corns and yellow rats everywhere in the rafters. Frequently right next to each other. Yup. They had all that space in the building. Room enough that none of them ever had to see each other and yet many were clumped in the same areas near each other. So give a rest. Some snakes under the right conditions can live together with no problem whatsoever. AT least that's what nature says. I guess some people here know better.
It's nice to see a member going back into the archives. I recommend the search function, but few actually use it. It's a well known fact that several snakes can be found together in Gopher tortoise dens. Some time back I mentioned that I saw a coachwhip laying on top of a black racer along the side of my house. I wanted to see if they were actually breeding, but they moved off quickly. Another thing was your statement that you saw snakes in the rafters of the abandoned building. Typically I herp with my eyes along the ground, but a fellow herper told me he finds corns in the branches of trees. I have since been checking out the trees too, but haven't found anything yet.
MysticExotics
(formerly NWHeather)
The difference is in captivity, they do not have the ability to get any further from the other end of the enclosure.
It's not a problem until it is.
Experienced keepers can recognize signs of stress, new keepers generally don't see the signs.
It's not a problem until it is.
Experienced keepers can recognize signs of stress, new keepers generally don't see the signs.
Dragonling
Doesn't do "casual"
Idk, I've never been fond of necro posts, especially when there's an 8 year gap in comments.
Snakes may choose to cuddle up in prime locations, but they don't actively choose to be stuck in a tub or tank with a permanent roommate. For many species this isn't a real problem, and for some it may even be welcome (e.g. Thamnophis), but it does require a somewhat more careful eye on the part of the keeper. I'm in the if-you-don't-know-what-you're-doing-don't-do-it camp, nestled snugly next to if-you-have-to-ask-you-probably-don't-know-what-you're-doing.
"Snakes may choose to cuddle up in prime locations, but they don't actively choose to be stuck in a tub or tank with a permanent roommate."
I'm not sure that any of my snake actually are "wanting" to live in my cages. If I were to give them what they actually need then they would be out in the wild.
I'm not sure that any of my snake actually are "wanting" to live in my cages. If I were to give them what they actually need then they would be out in the wild.
Well, I think some of them learn to appreciate their captivity. My younger brother (Ross) once had a black rat snake that he raised from a hatching. He carried that snake everywhere and they were nearly inseparable. Every once in a while, Ross would forget to fasten down the cage lid and our mom would find that snake just coiled up on top of the cage. He never wondered far and seemed to be content with the situation.
In another instance, I caught a very large yellow rat snake in the Englewood area (back when it was mostly wild and sparsely populated. I pulled him out of a palm tree in back of the motel my parents had rented for us all. Poor thing was heavily scarred from obvious past battles it had been in. And like the above mentioned black rat snake, occasionally he would find his way out of his cage, but would always be laying right on top of the lid. I think he recognized that the free food comes from above, and he just wanted to be closer to the source.
Heck thinking about it, a long while back I had captured an adult corn snake near the Murdock area of Florida. Again, this was when it was fairly wild and wooly, and the place is wall to wall strip malls and stores now. Anyway, Connie and I were in the area for a while, and this was the first snake I had caught for that trip. So I would take her out of the bag often, to handle her to get her used to it and give her a drink of water. When it came time to leave for home, I had caught other snakes that I wanted to keep more than that original corn snake, so we took her back to where we had captured her. This one was more uniformly orange colored, and I tended to prefer the more Miami Phase looking corns. Matter of fact, this may have been when I caught that original ancestor to the Lavender line, if I am not mistaken. That was right in an abandoned cement "factory" in Murdock, FL, right at the intersection of routes 776 and 41. Anyway, I pulled her out of the bag and laid her on the ground. Normally a snake will just take off away from me, but this girl just kept on turning around, trying to climb up my legs, no matter how many times I would peel her off of my leg and put her back on the ground, she just headed right back to my legs. For all the world seemingly telling me "Please don't send me back into the wild, Mr. Rich!". I had to eventually place her in a tree and then run the other way to the vehicle to escape. Just darn odd behavior. I have never had a snake act like that before nor since. Maybe I should have kept her after all. I kind of feel bad about that, thinking about it.
In another instance, I caught a very large yellow rat snake in the Englewood area (back when it was mostly wild and sparsely populated. I pulled him out of a palm tree in back of the motel my parents had rented for us all. Poor thing was heavily scarred from obvious past battles it had been in. And like the above mentioned black rat snake, occasionally he would find his way out of his cage, but would always be laying right on top of the lid. I think he recognized that the free food comes from above, and he just wanted to be closer to the source.
Heck thinking about it, a long while back I had captured an adult corn snake near the Murdock area of Florida. Again, this was when it was fairly wild and wooly, and the place is wall to wall strip malls and stores now. Anyway, Connie and I were in the area for a while, and this was the first snake I had caught for that trip. So I would take her out of the bag often, to handle her to get her used to it and give her a drink of water. When it came time to leave for home, I had caught other snakes that I wanted to keep more than that original corn snake, so we took her back to where we had captured her. This one was more uniformly orange colored, and I tended to prefer the more Miami Phase looking corns. Matter of fact, this may have been when I caught that original ancestor to the Lavender line, if I am not mistaken. That was right in an abandoned cement "factory" in Murdock, FL, right at the intersection of routes 776 and 41. Anyway, I pulled her out of the bag and laid her on the ground. Normally a snake will just take off away from me, but this girl just kept on turning around, trying to climb up my legs, no matter how many times I would peel her off of my leg and put her back on the ground, she just headed right back to my legs. For all the world seemingly telling me "Please don't send me back into the wild, Mr. Rich!". I had to eventually place her in a tree and then run the other way to the vehicle to escape. Just darn odd behavior. I have never had a snake act like that before nor since. Maybe I should have kept her after all. I kind of feel bad about that, thinking about it.
Frank Pinello
New member
My 2 cents.......
Snakes are found together in the wild all the time. However, other than breeding reasons, I don’t believe it is because they like each other’s company. I believe it’s because the area they are found together is a prime area for both food and shelter which attract many to one area or spot. Also heat and humidity at a particular spot is the most comfortable attracting multiple snakes. I bet each of these snakes would prefer they were in this prime spot alone.
Snakes are found together in the wild all the time. However, other than breeding reasons, I don’t believe it is because they like each other’s company. I believe it’s because the area they are found together is a prime area for both food and shelter which attract many to one area or spot. Also heat and humidity at a particular spot is the most comfortable attracting multiple snakes. I bet each of these snakes would prefer they were in this prime spot alone.
I really cannot speak for a snake because I ain't one. I often find snakes "cohabitating" out in the wild. Are they there because of love to be with each other, because of desired environmental conditions, or because of a lack of other suitable habitat?....that is a question that we may never really know (but we still all insert our anthropomorphic feelings in this).
I also have had some snakes show an affinity for human contact/interaction. They are much smarter than we usually give them credit for. I also believe they would be much better off in enclosures that are much larger and more complex than what "industry standards" would suggest.
I also have had some snakes show an affinity for human contact/interaction. They are much smarter than we usually give them credit for. I also believe they would be much better off in enclosures that are much larger and more complex than what "industry standards" would suggest.