Will a corn snake eat other snakes?

[boabass6]

Since everyone including me are not presenting very many facts and are just expressing their ideas, I will say I have a theory as to why snakes will cuddle. I should mention I have gotten a lot of bogus insults telling me I am being selfish for co habbing the snakes and that snakes don't need affection.

I never said the snakes needed affection or intimacy. I also don't think they hate being with each other. My original question was about weather or not a corn snake will eat other snakes. This has turned into a completely new discussion which is fine. I just wish people presented more facts or experiences rather than insults and unfounded beliefs.

I believe snakes cuddle because there is power in numbers. I see them all the time in the wild together, under boards and under logs, or sometimes basking in a blank spot in the field. I know eventually they go their separate ways, and in captivity they can't do this. My idea is if they have a big enough cage and it is kept clean, they should be fine. If your going to say they are under stress because they can't escape, then why keep snakes in captivity in the first place? If you guys want me to change my mind, then please provide research on the topic.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

@BloodyBaroness- Your making a good argument thus far about behavior and habitats, but if what your saying about animals being confined is true, then why keep snakes in captivity at all? If I do not want my snakes to get sick, then I should take precautions about making sure they have good husbandry...

ALREADY ANSWERED. I will put it in bold, heck I even underlined it.

Until snakes grow vocal chords we have to based our standards of care off of their natural behavior. Natural behavior is not being trapped in a small space with another snake that they may secretly hate, but can't get away from. Sure natural behavior is also not being in a 20 gallon viv to start, but that's why we as keepers provide stimulating cage environments and add in what enrichment we can. It's our responsibility to give each animal the best care possible within the scope of that animals needs.

If you guys can make better contribution in the matter I might be willing to separate the bulls. I don't want them to get sick or hurt each other. I've been keeping snakes since I was a kid, sometimes together sometimes separate. I don't like the idea of keeping two different species together, but I've kept garder snakes and black racers. What it all comes down to is my experience has taught me same species co-habbing as it is called here, does not bring harm, but I am not so sure about two different species. I know my bulls are growing, and my bull snake seems to be growing faster than my north Mexican pine. I know bull snakes eat other snakes, and so I would separate them because of size. If they didn't eat other snakes, like red tailed boas, I would not be concerned.

At this point I am calling a spade a spade. This seems to be nothing more than a passive aggressive trolling argument.

Good luck with your snakes. You have been given MOUNTAINS of good advice.

I suggest you take some of it to heart.

 

[boabass6]

ALREADY ANSWERED. I will put it in bold, heck I even underlined it.






At this point I am calling a spade a spade. This seems to be nothing more than a passive aggressive trolling argument.

Good luck with your snakes. You have been given MOUNTAINS of good advice.

I suggest you take some of it to heart.

Take what to heart? I can't even understand your argument. This is a debate, and it is not trolling. Calling me a troll and a spade a spade does not contribute to the debate. If you believe so much in what you are saying, please provide research or experience. So far there has been some, but I will need more.

Should also point out to what someone said about bull snakes not having other snakes in their diet: Bull snakes will eat other snakes, in fact, they even said to kill rattle snakes. I have heard this is true from some research, and not true from others so I can't say for sure, but it might be possible. They can be very aggressive. Thankfully my bulls are small and don't bite, but the Mexican Pine will shake his tail when I hold him.

 

[boabass6]

Here is something that might interest people. This guy claims that keeping snakes separate is a general rule but he admits to keeping his North Mexican Pines together:
http://www.thirdeyeherp.com/mextext.htm

I should say in light of the fact that the bull snakes can sometimes eat each other and my bull snake is growing much bigger than my pine snake I might separate them.

 

[dan803]

By saying the behavior is "power in numbers," all you did was project human emotions on them. That is just close-minded as the people on the other side who believe reptiles are simple creatures with no emotions of any kind. Solitary animals are hard to comprehend in humans because we are social, so having a belief set in stone like that is just ignorance.

Just because I've accepted the fact that they aren't social with each other doesn't mean I don't keep an open mind. I believe they may have some sort of 6th sense... they sense fear and it makes them more likely to tense up. But when you are calm, there is a sort of mutual respect and I think they may enjoy the positive energy or something. Just little things I think about sometimes.

 

[starsevol]

I know eventually they go their separate ways, and in captivity they can't do this. My idea is if they have a big enough cage and it is kept clean, they should be fine. If your going to say they are under stress because they can't escape, then why keep snakes in captivity in the first place? If you guys want me to change my mind, then please provide research on the topic.

Um because they can't escape EACH OTHER. THAT is what stresses them out.

Sadly, animals kept by idiots ALWAYS end up suffering.
It has happened since the dawn of time, and is not likely to change anytime soon.

MY experiance.....
housed 2 corns together TEMPORARILY because a heating element in one of my racks burnt out and nearly burned down my house. I had never believed in co habbing but had to make an exception. (and was too stupid and inexperianced to realize that Walmart had these cheap plastic bins).
Female got gravid, and died eggbound.
If she had been kept by herself, guess what, she would still be here!!
<<< my avatar is one of the few eggs that hatched.

 

[boabass6]

Are you sure it was because the two snakes were together? Perhapse adapting to new heating changes spawned the stress...

 

[starsevol]

Are you sure it was because the two snakes were together? Perhapse adapting to new heating changes spawned the stress...

Well, if they had not been together, there would have been no eggs to get stuck and kill her. So, yes. She died because they were together. (She had been sexed as a male by the guy I got her from)

 

[boabass6]

How did the other snake contribute to her death? Are you saying it is because she got pregnant?

 

[Gungirl]

wow .... boabass6 you really seem to be just looking for a fight. I really hope that none of your snakes suffer because of your lack of common sense.

 

[starsevol]

How did the other snake contribute to her death? Are you saying it is because she got pregnant?

Well, she died from becoming EGGBOUND.
What does that tell you?

PS, the word is "gravid" not "pregnant".

 

[DartFrogsDragonfly]

Exactly. They were stressed. And I should have separated them as soon as I had read that cohabbing was a problem. No matter what my own "habitat mate" said or thought.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

How about some photos? Many from this very forum.

All images copyright by original owner.

 

[boabass6]

I don't think too many people here understand what the word debate is. There is a difference between debate and bickering. Arguments are made when presenting evidence and experience which reflect people's values on a subject, which is called bias. Arguments are made so people can find a ground for their bias and make their point based on careful and rigorous examination of the evidence. This contributes to elaborated or sometimes even new-found knowledge to those involved in the debate. Fudes and fighting are made when people consistently insult each other and don't contribute valid evidence or constructive thought to the debate.

What I asked was not to pick a fight, but to clarify. When you go and accuse someone with no ground or insult them, then that is picking a fight.

Use your emotion and thoughts constructively, together. Please.

 

[boabass6]

@BloodyBaroness Are those snakes that ate other snakes or are they gravid?
@starsevol It tells me what you just said, she died becoming eggbound. Did they mate too early and she wasn't ready for it? Was this how co-habbing effected the snake's death? Your stating the problems, not so much the reasons.

 

[Naagas]

I think that you are getting a lot of emotional arguments because so many people on this forum have had cohabbing tragedies.

Nobody is going to logically debate a situation where one of their babies died.

Some corn snakes may get along with each other or even another snake, but you can't ask them.... so you would have to risk an introduction, then risk leaving them alone together.

If they fail to get along, the result is death.
That is a pretty high cost with little benefit.

Your snake isn't going to get 'lonely'- so why risk death to cohab?

That is the logical argument you are going to get.

I tried to find the papers that I read on cohabbing in the wild. I haven't found them yet. I will let you know when I do.

In the wild, snakes often lay together to keep warm. They tend to get along more with their matrimonial line (mothers are less likely to kill their daughters, etc.)
This is different from captivity, where we provide heat sources and we often don't have genetically linked snakes that we are trying to cohab.

If I were going to experiment with cohabbing, I would do so with a mother/daughter pair who had both reached adulthood. That is probably the safest pair to cohab. But, again, I wouldn't experiment with my snakes. They are pets to me.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

@BloodyBaroness Are those snakes that ate other snakes or are they gravid?
.

They ate other snakes. Every single one of them.

 

[boabass6]

To clarify one thing, I am not going to risk keeping my bulls with the adult corn snake. I might separate the bulls in smaller cages because my bull is getting a little big big for my NMP. My boas are together, and I might get a rack to separate them. Right now what I've been trying to say is that the bulls and boas are getting along.

Baroness, these are very convincing pictures, especially the boa. It might just be my perception, but the snakes in all those pictures including the boa look very skinny, despite the bulges of where other snakes have been ingested. I know some of the snakes are younglings, and they are usually skinny, but this is not normal behavior for boids to eat other reptiles. If it were a king snake or an indego snake it wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if the snakes were underfed?

 

[starsevol]

Baroness, these are very convincing pictures, especially the boa. It might just be my perception, but the snakes in all those pictures including the boa look very skinny, despite the bulges of where other snakes have been ingested. I know some of the snakes are younglings, and they are usually skinny, but this is not normal behavior for boids to eat other reptiles. If it were a king snake or an indego snake it wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if the snakes were underfed?

You want a "debate", but what is a FACT is that normal behaviour or not, underfed or not, those snakes would not have eaten their cagemates if....THEY HAD NO CAGEMATES IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!
Those pictures prove that YES it does happen.
One of the people here had 2 males killed by females during the breeding season, and they were adult cornsnakes. Well fed adult cornsnakes. This happened last year, almost a year ago from right now.

 

[susang]

Let's see you say pregnant not gravid, you wonder if the snakes Autumn pictured are gravid or if they cannibalized. 'statement'

So what is your knowledge base for those snakes being thin, underfed and improperly cared for. 'rebuttal'

Now please take your 'debate' somewhere where you can be as impressive as you think you are.

Oh! and snakes are kept in vivs or tubs not cages.