Having more than one snake in one tank.

Im going to buy a cornsnake and a milk snake soon. They're both going to be about the same size. I already have a 20 gallon tank. I was planning on keeping both snakes in the 20 gallon tank and when they get older i would seperate them.

-Is it fine to keep two snakes of different species in the same tank?
-How many hides should I keep in the tank?
-Feed them in seperate containers?
-Can I keep more than 2 snakes in 1 tank?
-Does their gender make a difference?
-Is it possible that they might mate if they were of the same species and ofcourse different gender (im still a beginner, i dont want to end up with alot of babys)?

Thanks alot guys. This site has been really helpful.

abadawi said:

Im going to buy a cornsnake and a milk snake soon. They're both going to be about the same size. I already have a 20 gallon tank. I was planning on keeping both snakes in the 20 gallon tank and when they get older i would seperate them.

-Is it fine to keep two snakes of different species in the same tank?

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I wouldn't. Milksnakes sometimes eat other snakes in the wild. For that matter, baby corns occasionally eat their siblings.

-Is it possible that they might mate if they were of the same species and ofcourse different gender (im still a beginner, i dont want to end up with alot of babys)?QUOTE]

Theoretically, they might mate and the female might produce eggs - and that's bad if the female is too young to safely do so.

I would put them both into separate enclosures, personally - saves a lot of possible heartache all around.

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Never co-hab two snakes of the same species. Nevermind two of differant species. It can lead to injury, stress, and if they are of opposite sexes, they could mate. And if the female is too young it can easily lead to their death.

It's worth the extra money for a new tank, rather than risking making the snakes suffer.

Milksnakes are a type of kingsnake, so NO please don't put them together. I even worried sometimes when I put my Milks together to breed.

abadawi said:

Im going to buy a cornsnake and a milk snake soon. They're both going to be about the same size. I already have a 20 gallon tank. I was planning on keeping both snakes in the 20 gallon tank and when they get older i would seperate them.

-Is it fine to keep two snakes of different species in the same tank?
-How many hides should I keep in the tank?
-Feed them in seperate containers?
-Can I keep more than 2 snakes in 1 tank?
-Does their gender make a difference?
-Is it possible that they might mate if they were of the same species and ofcourse different gender (im still a beginner, i dont want to end up with alot of babys)?

Thanks alot guys. This site has been really helpful.

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The milksnake will probably eat the corn snake, so no not a good idea.

you need at least 2 hides, 1 on cool side and one on warm side.

Yes feed in separate containers unless you use a substrate that can't be accidentally ingested like newspaper or paper towels. Separate tub is still recommended

More than 2 in 1 tank? NO. Not more than 1 either.

Gender doesn't matter because they should each have their own tank

Yes they will mate if different gender probably too early for the female and she could get eggbound and die, or get too weak after laying and die.

-Is it fine to keep two snakes of different species in the same tank?

NO. Please see this thread:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31192&page=1&pp=10

and this thread:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=261720#post261720

-How many hides should I keep in the tank?

Most would recommend one per temperature gradient, so if you have a warm side and a cool side go for 2 hides if not more.

-Feed them in seperate containers?

Seperate to each other? Absolutely.

Feed in the same container and any of the following can happen: One snake eats all the food and becomes dominant so one withers away. One snake decides that the other smells pretty mouse-like and eats it. One defends the food from the other by biting and disfiguring/kills the other.

Seperate to their vivs?:

Well that depends on a few factors. If your bedding is something they can swallow, then feed in a seperate container. If they accidentally swallow their bedding it can cause blockages inside and they die. You also want to train their striking response so they don't bite you, and feeding them in a specific container can help with this.


-Can I keep more than 2 snakes in 1 tank?

See above, especially corns, NO.

-Does their gender make a difference?

If they are going to eat each other, not so much. They'll eat their cell-mate either way. Also the whole passing-on-diseases, mating-and death-through-too-early-eggs, one-escapes-so-the-other-escapes stuff to factor in. Mainly, NO, and then again............... NO. If a girl will eat a girl for whatever reason, she'll eat a boy too.


-Is it possible that they might mate if they were of the same species and ofcourse different gender (im still a beginner, i dont want to end up with alot of babys)?

Yes it is possible, no you wouldn't like the outcome. E.g Eggs you aren't equipped to deal with, egg-bound females, stressed snakes who won't eat anything, parasite exchanges.............


Your questions were very well thought out and I applaud you for asking them. I hope you don't take my aggressive-advice in the wrong way. Just be aware that this question is often raised, and as there will be a few who tell you to co-hab, just use the search function to find out how many will warn you against it. I don't want to see more pics of cannibalised snakes!

All the very best with yours, I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy mine!

No. Don't do it. Don't even think about doing it.

It's a bad enough idea to put two corns together; mixing species is just asking for trouble. I believe it would be very stressful for both animals. Do you really think corns and milks in the wild choose to hang around together? Forcing them together could cause any number of problems.

Paradox said:

Never co-hab two snakes of the same species.
No don't do it.
No.
ect.

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Guys don't say never. There are time when it is perfectly acceptable to house two, or more, cornsnakes (or other species) together for extended period of time. Many people keep some kings together year round. Now, I am not saying that it should be done. It can be done, if the keeper is experienced enough with the species and individual animals. Personally I do not co-hab any animals, except while brumating. All my alterna and mexicana females go in one tub, while all the corn females go in another. The males all have individual tubs.

Back to the question at hand. Co-hab of different species. It can be done, but is deffinetally not advised, especially for a newer snake owner. Though not likely with these species (yes I know a milk is a king) opiophagy, or eating of another snake, is a possibility. Other than that, the two species act different, and have different husbandry needs, and would thus not make good cage mates.
Other problems, pertaining to cohabiting in general, include:
Disease transfer(if one is sick, both are sick).
Lack of ability to tell who has shed, pooped, or regurgitated.
Stress (high potential for different species).

Here is another thread to read:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17308

mike17l said:

Guys don't say never. There are time when it is perfectly acceptable to house two, or more, cornsnakes (or other species) together for extended period of time.

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Could you give us an example?

I feel that co-habbing can be acceptable in very unusual and temporary situations - ie, you broke one snake's tank and need somewhere to house him/her until you can get a new tank the next morning - yeah, that's acceptable, IMO. But I cannot agree with you that in regards to long-term cohabbing, knowing the risks to your animals and deciding to do it anyway is ever acceptable.As I and other have said before, there are plenty of reasons NOT to co-hab but few, if any good reasons TO co-hab.

mike17l said:

Guys don't say never. There are time when it is perfectly acceptable to house two, or more, cornsnakes (or other species) together for extended period of time.

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Yes, it's called putting together snakes for breeding or brumation. If it is not during those times, then all it points to is a lazy and selfish keeper who can't be bothered to take proper care of his animals just for a bit of convenience to himself. If that's the best the person can do for creatures in his care, I would suggest a pair of pet rocks as a better alternative to living animals.

Plissken said:

Could you give us an example?

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Sure.

Like I said, I keep my adult females together for brumation (2-3 months). I keep corns in one tub and the alterna and mexicana in another. Many well known and respected breeders keep trios of some species of Lampropeltis (Kingsnakes) together year round. Although some keep getula kings together year round, I personally would not. But many keep mexicana, alterna, pyromelana, zonata, and some species of milks together year round, with no adverse affects. I am not suggesting that this should be done. I am saying that saying "never" is usually never the thing to say. There are always acceptions to the rule. I also "co-hab" adult pair for a week or so at a time during breeding season. If I had a large display cage, that had ample room for many snakes. I would be perfectly comfortable housing multiple females year round in it. Especially, if they were different morphs, it would be very visually appealing to others. I am not suggesting this to anyone, but it is quite acceptable to anyone with the knowledge and experience.
If Kathy Love or Rich Z asked if they could house multiple snakes together year round, would you tell them "no, you can not"?

Wilder said:

Yes, it's called putting together snakes for breeding or brumation. If it is not during those times, then all it points to is a lazy and selfish keeper who can't be bothered to take proper care of his animals just for a bit of convenience to himself. If that's the best the person can do for creatures in his care, I would suggest a pair of pet rocks as a better alternative to living animals.

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Sorry, but that is a very ignorant point of view. I personally do not house animals together, except during breeding and brumation, but with knowledge and experience, with a species and individual animal, there is no problem "co-habing".

mike17l said:

I am saying that saying "never" is usually never the thing to say

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Sorry, but I found that line slightly amusing...

Especially, if they were different morphs, it would be very visually appealing to others.

I'm not being rude here, but are you suggesting that visual appear comes before the welfare of the snakes?

it is quite acceptable to anyone with the knowledge and experience.

Why, exactly? Why is someone with experience in corns able to co-hab corns while someone new to corns is not? Co-habbing is co-habbing and the best keeper in the world can't change the fact that snakes are solitary animals.

Also, having experience doesn't always mean you know what you're doing. I could have kept corns for twenty years, but it doesn't mean I'm doing it the best way or that my animals are not stressed.

A point about seperate feed boxes:

A while back, there was a post with a picture of a snake that had for some bizzare reason eaten the kitchen towel lining of the tupperware box it was put in to feed, and had died. I can imagine a damp mouse could catch on the paper, leading to the snake swallowing it. Obviously snakes are fed on kitchen towel all the time, and 99.9% are perfectly fine, so I'm not saying never to do it, but just to be aware. Personally, I leave feed boxes empty except for the snake and the food, but if I do use kitchen towel I watch to make sure everything's fine. (I'm probably far too paranoid!) I've been searching for the post in question, but haven't found it, if I do though I'll post the link here.

Good luck with your new snakes,
Hannah

Plissken said:

Sorry, but I found that line slightly amusing...

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It was ment to be.

Plissken said:

I'm not being rude here, but are you suggesting that visual appear comes before the welfare of the snakes?

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I did not say that there welfare would be compromised. Refer to my next response.

Plissken said:

Why, exactly? Why is someone with experience in corns able to co-hab corns while someone new to corns is not? Co-habbing is co-habbing and the best keeper in the world can't change the fact that snakes are solitary animals.

Also, having experience doesn't always mean you know what you're doing. I could have kept corns for twenty years, but it doesn't mean I'm doing it the best way or that my animals are not stressed.

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Experience does not always mean you know what you are doing, but it is usually a good indicator. Remember, there is a difference between experience and experiences. Let my ask my question again, if Kathy Love or Rich Z asked on these boards if it was ok to co-hab a couple snakes, would you say no? Some one with experience, knows the individual animals, and knows what they are looking for, in terms of stress, illness, ect. an inexperienced and uneducated person should very rarely co-hab, as they do not know what they are looking for.

mike17l said:

Sorry, but that is a very ignorant point of view. I personally do not house animals together, except during breeding and brumation, but with knowledge and experience, with a species and individual animal, there is no problem "co-habing".

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Everyone likes to thinks that they have "knowledge" and "experience" -- until something happens. This is why it is also important to have "responsibility." And forcing solitary animals to cohabitate outside of a natural time to do so (breeding) is far from responsible.

Besides which, when some new person comes and asks if it's okay to house two different species in one cage, it's fairly evident that they would not have this "knowledge" and "experience". Far better to recommend they keep them seperate and let them learn about their snakes and how to care for them long before even suggesting it's not a big deal to cohabitate. YOUR "knowledge" and "experience" won't mean squat to him if his snakes end up dead or eaten.

Erm..... if Kathy Love came on here and asked if it was ok to cohab snakes.......

1) I'd assume it wasn't really her,
2) I'd want a long explanation as to why she was asking the question in the first place, and
3) I'd still say NO.

Yes this is a personal opinion of mine and I should not try to supress other points of view, but I really can't see where you are coming from. You say you cohab snakes for a week during breeding time? Well......duh.... no-one thinks snakes can magically mate with a sheet of plexiglass seperating them! However then can not-so-magically damage each other in various ways if you consistantly cohab. Give me a bona fide, makes-actual-sense/benefits-the-animals reason and I shall bow to superior knowledge.

Plus, the 'visually appealing' comment pretty much leaves you open to be shot down, and rightly so.

Wilder said:

Everyone likes to thinks that they have "knowledge" and "experience" -- until something happens. This is why it is also important to have "responsibility." And forcing solitary animals to cohabitate outside of a natural time to do so (breeding) is far from responsible.

Besides which, when some new person comes and asks if it's okay to house two different species in one cage, it's fairly evident that they would not have this "knowledge" and "experience". Far better to recommend they keep them seperate and let them learn about their snakes and how to care for them long before even suggesting it's not a big deal to cohabitate. YOUR "knowledge" and "experience" won't mean squat to him if his snakes end up dead or eaten.

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Refer to my origional post.

Mike17L said:

Back to the question at hand. Co-hab of different species. It can be done, but is deffinetally not advised, especially for a newer snake owner. Though not likely with these species (yes I know a milk is a king) opiophagy, or eating of another snake, is a possibility. Other than that, the two species act different, and have different husbandry needs, and would thus not make good cage mates.
Other problems, pertaining to cohabiting in general, include:
Disease transfer(if one is sick, both are sick).
Lack of ability to tell who has shed, pooped, or regurgitated.
Stress (high potential for different species).

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I suggested not to do it in this situation, but I am also saying that it can be done in certain situations.

Ok, I'll take the bait. What might those 'certain situations' be?