*Graphic* Why NOT to house your snakes together.

[princess]

OK, my mistake, I was sure at the time of my first post that this was in the husbandry section but I guess I may have had another window open at the same time...whoops, I appologise.

But honestly. Comparing the case of keeping the boa and BP together and saying 'look what happens when you put 2 snakes together' is like showing what a couple of male Betta splendens together would do to each other and saying 'this is why guppies must be kept appart'.

Do you see my point?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

But what do you say of the picture of the hatchling cornsnake whom had eaten his deli cup mate?

 

[Taceas]

I think its terribly unfortunate for the Boa, the BP, and the Amel corns.

But I think the relevancy to the issue is the same, regardless of species. Death by being eaten by your cagemate or travelmate can happen, no matter what critter it is.

No one would have thunk a Boa would have eaten a BP. I know I didn't think it would be an issue for such a short duration. Apparently Scott didn't think it would be an issue either. That's why its so valuable of a lesson to be shown. You can't just ass-u-me things will be hunky-dory in two relatively placid snakes.

I guess it isn't "cannibalism" on the Boa's part because it ate a different species. And technically to be considered cannibalism its eating your own kind. Would that assumption be as inanely correct as well?

Personally, I find the most humorous aspect in that the same person who says its relevancy to corns doesn't count or belong as a 'warning sticky' is the same person who admittedly feeds adult corn snakes in the same tub within close proximity to one another and also houses adult corn snakes together.

Maybe accidents don't happen in Sweden. Either that or its too cold and dreary for Murphy to vacation there. :shrugs:

 

[DaemoNox]

Kind of like the toilet water flushing in a different direction on the other side of the world

 

[cornsnakekid92]

we have 27 year old Adèle in one corner and 26 year old misty in the other, both of them have 53 rep. pointb and over 2000 post.




THATS GET READY TO RUMBLE!





just kidding, ll i can say is that that is why i dont house snakes together.

 

[princess]

But what do you say of the picture of the hatchling cornsnake whom had eaten his deli cup mate?

I made my comments before the photo of the corns was posted in this thread so I stand by my comments regarding same species -vs- different species.

I am aware of the risk of housing my snakes together and I make a judgement call on it.


It's just like how I know the risks of driving after drinking, so I make a judgement call and decide not to drink and drive.

I know the risk of being in an accident whilst riding a motorbike is greater than in a car but I decide that I want the fun/feeling of the morotbike. Obviously I wouldn't ride whilst it's snowing as I understand the risk of slipping and make a judgement call.

I believe we as adults are free to weigh the risks in any given situation and judge for ourselves if the risk is acceptable or not. Sometimes we take the risk other times we decide not to.

Personally, I find the most humorous aspect in that the same person who says its relevancy to corns doesn't count or belong as a 'warning sticky' is the same person who admittedly feeds adult corn snakes in the same tub within close proximity to one another and also houses adult corn snakes together.

I make judgements based on how well I know my animals and I can't say it's given me any problems. If it turns out that I was wrong and I have a situation of cannibalisation or a missexing causing an underweight female to become gravid then I'm big enough to admit it but so far it's been working just fine for me and I don't see any reason to change my husbandry practices to suit popular opinion.

 

[carol]

One point that hasn't been made;
There very well could be people out there that frequent this forum that house their cornsnake with their boa. Perhaps there are even more that are considering setting up such cohabitation. This information is very relevent to those corn keepers. I think it does have a legitimate place here even if it was posted somewhere besides general chit chat. So here is my example... Suppose someone posted a pic of a Ball Python that had been chewed up by leaving it overnight with a live mouse. Would we attack this person saying, "Well that just happens to Ball Pythons. This has no place in a cornsnake forum!"?
I think saying that a post showing risks on cohabitation has nothing to do with cornsnakes is a big stretch, are cornsnakes immune from the risks of being housed with different species?
If you want to argue that this is a separate argument than the one regarding housing two corns together, fine. The original post never said "This is why you shouldn't house two corns together." I guess in your "perfect world" the poster would have posted "Why you should not cohabitate two different species." But I don't see what you or anyone else gains from picking apart some very useful information on a documented fact, just because the wording was not perfect.
Is it a personal decision? Sure. To use your example, you know how much you can drink before you drive. But would you attack someone who posted a pic of their dead loved ones and said "This is what happens when you drink and drive."? Would you tell them they are way off base and that only happens when some people drink and drive?
I have seen attempts on cannibalism in corns several times through out the years in my own collection. It is dangerous. To make the educated decision to cohabitate your corns is one thing. To promote it and discredit arguments against it is another. Maybe it is just me, when I give advice I always tell people to go with the safest way. I guess I just could not live with myself if someone lost a beloved pet due to reading something I said.
It seems as if you have made the informed decision that cohabiting two different species is dangerous. Then you can see the relevance this thread has to people who may be housing their corns with boas.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

It seems to me that if you read all the threads by experienced keepers, then you know there are risks when co-housing corns or other snakes. You may think 'it won't happen to me' until it happens to you. A lot of people seem to learn the lesson best when they 'learn it the hard way'.
I know cohabitation is a hot topic and even if it may work for some it's still good to have threads like this one so new keepers can see that there are risks involved.

 

[Bobo's Mama]

One point that hasn't been made;
There very well could be people out there that frequent this forum that house their cornsnake with their boa. Perhaps there are even more that are considering setting up such cohabitation. This information is very relevent to those corn keepers. I think it does have a legitimate place here even if it was posted somewhere besides general chit chat. So here is my example... Suppose someone posted a pic of a Ball Python that had been chewed up by leaving it overnight with a live mouse. Would we attack this person saying, "Well that just happens to Ball Pythons. This has no place in a cornsnake forum!"?
I think saying that a post offering risks on cohabitation has nothing to do with cornsnakes is a big stretch, are cornsnakes immune from the risks of being housed with different species?
If you want to argue that this is a separate argument than the one regarding housing two corns together, fine. The original post never said "This is why you shouldn't house two corns together." I guess in your "perfect world" the poster would have posted "Why you should not cohabitate two different species." But I don't see what you or anyone else gains from picking apart some very useful information on a documented fact, just because the wording was not perfect.
Is it a personal decision? Sure. To use your example, you know how much you can drink before you drive. But would you attack someone who posted a pic of their dead loved ones and said "This is what happens when you drink and drive."? Would you tell them they are way off base and that only happens when some people drink and drive?
I have seen attempts on cannibalism in corns several times through out the years in my own collection. It is dangerous. The make the educated decision to cohabitate your corns is one thing. To promote it and discredit arguments against it is another. Maybe it is just me, when I give advice I always tell people to go with the safest way. I guess I just could not live with myself if someone lost a beloved pet due to reading something I said.
It seems as if you have made the informed decision that cohabiting two different species is dangerous. Then you can see the relevance this thread has to people who may be housing their corns with boas.

I like your example, Carol, because at one point a few months ago. There was a young lady who came onto the forums who WAS housing her corn with her Brazilian Rainbow Boa. She just didn't any know any better.

 

[Joker]

Yes this is a HOT topic and I knew it would come to bickering. But as some of the greats have said before......
"can you?....... Possibly"
"Would I?.... NO!"
This is not a black and white or right or wrong topic. I am sure there are people out there that have housed snakes together(same species or not) together sucessfully. I personally would call them lucky, as I would not practice this. That is their choice and being their animals we really have no jurisdiction over it. I do not belive in it so I do not practice it. And my expressed opinions will show this. Please keep this a friendly discussion as the outcome will not change. People will do what people will do.
Josh

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

well

I was going to respond to that last analogy about the guppies but basically everything I would have said has been covered quite well.

One thing I wanted to touch on....Even though cohabitation is a choice and plenty of people practice it with corns, the definite dangers must be expressed when it comes to beginners in the hobby.
I don't think it should ever be dismissed or portrayed as insignificant.
Having said that, I have basically just circled back to where we were with my original post so I guess I will leave it at that.

Thanks for your input on the subject, everyone.
especially Carol and Taceas

 

[JenC]

Wow this got ugly fast...

Awesome post Carol.

 

[nerys]

i make a habit of collecting pics like this actually, for educational purposes also...

so have some history on the pics...

i posted a whole load of them not so long back on a UK forum...

http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=41825&hl=cannibal

so, here we go, get ready for some nasty sights..

first off, let address the issue of "its a boa not a corn"

wanna see some corns eating each other??? oh...well... ok then...

 

[nerys]

and here is how cock-ups start off sometimes...

and here we go with a cracker... eating oneself is not good for one...

(not just corns that do that btw... here is a boa doing the same...)

and a milksnake getting started.. a species interbred with corns don't forget...

and a cali, again, interbred with corns these guys...

N

 

[nerys]

back to the boa in the first post..

the thread is located on bob clarks forum, here

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...together?&CAT_ID=1&FORUM_ID=11&TOPIC_ID=20213


to quote some of bobs post

"Exactly why the boa struck and devoured the ball python is unknown, maybe it made a move that startled the boa, maybe it had been on the warm side and resembled a rat (????) maybe there was still some rat scent on the ball from the last feeding, maybe the boa is just crazy.

While this is an isolated event, and not common of boas of any kind, it's reinforcing evidence that communal housing for boids of all kinds is a terrible idea.

These images are being posted courtesy of my fellow boa crackhead, Herman Stokel. He's one of the few true redtail and pure locale breeders in europe"

few others... this a boa..

http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/uploads/post-391-1134143961.jpg

http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/uploads/post-391-1134143969.jpg

http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/uploads/post-391-1134143977.jpg

http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/uploads/post-391-1134144369.jpg

the corn eating itself, has been nicknamed the enigma corn...

accompnying text goes - I'll call this the 'Cannibal Corn', though since it's dead and frozen, naming it is hardly a concern. I found this baby amelanistic corn this way in its individual shoebox cage, so it was not due to a struggle with a cagemate. I hadn't fed it recently either, so the centrally located lump was not a mouse. Maybe that's where its own rear end was curled (doubled over), because its tail was obviously folded over.

Why did it do it? Definitely an enigma!

http://cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on%2...cannibal corn

anyway, there you go... i also know of a BRB that ate two of its siblings, and an Irian Jaya that ate a litter mate too...

best kept solo eh!

N

 

[nerys]

back to the boa in the first post..

the thread is located on bob clarks forum, here

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...together?&CAT_ID=1&FORUM_ID=11&TOPIC_ID=20213


to quote some of bobs post

"Exactly why the boa struck and devoured the ball python is unknown, maybe it made a move that startled the boa, maybe it had been on the warm side and resembled a rat (????) maybe there was still some rat scent on the ball from the last feeding, maybe the boa is just crazy.

While this is an isolated event, and not common of boas of any kind, it's reinforcing evidence that communal housing for boids of all kinds is a terrible idea.

These images are being posted courtesy of my fellow boa crackhead, Herman Stokel. He's one of the few true redtail and pure locale breeders in europe"

few others... this a boa..

the corn eating itself, has been nicknamed the enigma corn...

accompnying text goes - I'll call this the 'Cannibal Corn', though since it's dead and frozen, naming it is hardly a concern. I found this baby amelanistic corn this way in its individual shoebox cage, so it was not due to a struggle with a cagemate. I hadn't fed it recently either, so the centrally located lump was not a mouse. Maybe that's where its own rear end was curled (doubled over), because its tail was obviously folded over.

Why did it do it? Definitely an enigma!

http://cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on%2...cannibal corn

anyway, there you go... i also know of a BRB that ate two of its siblings, and an Irian Jaya that ate a litter mate too...

best kept solo eh!

N

opps... forgot the {img} tags...

 

[jenkva]

I would like to point out that whether it is a corn eating a corn or a boa eating a python, it is cannibalism. It is like saying that if a person eats a person that is of a different colour is not cannibalism, in my books it is!
From what I read on the Internet, in books and in Forums, should (when... hehehe) I get a second snake, that is certain that I will not house them in the same tank. That would be like walking on a frozen lake not knowing if the ice is thick enough to support your weight or not.
I am not judging anyone for housing 2 snakes together but I think it is just waiting for an accident to happen and then it will be too late to say "oh, if I had known...", that will be too late and that would have been at the expense of the snake's live!

Then again, I am only a newbie but that's my .2

 

[nerys]

i keep breeding pairs together, and thats about it really... but then i have not found a way of sperm passing through walls yet, so thats likely to remain unchanged...

just best add... NONE OF THOSE PICS ARE MY SNAKES...

N

 

[Roy Munson]

I would like to point out that whether it is a corn eating a corn or a boa eating a python, it is cannibalism. It is like saying that if a person eats a person that is of a different colour is not cannibalism, in my books it is!

No, it's like a person eating another mammal-- and not necessarily even a primate. A snake eating another species of snake would be practicing ophiophagy, not cannibalism. Humans are all one species, regardless of color.

 

[jenkva]

No, it's like a person eating another mammal-- and not necessarily even a primate. A snake eating another species of snake would be practicing ophiophagy, not cannibalism. Humans are all one species, regardless of color.

Awww, Dean, come on, agree with me :bowdown:, am feeling pretty silly now with that comment ... LOL
Anyway, just to dig myself out of that hole I made for myself, snakes eat snakes!