My first non-eater.....

[Cornsnake124]

Well, I just had my first non-eater. Its an adult that I just bought. Its already had a meal and yes, I gave it a week and quarantined. I think it was fed in a feeding tub, which I do. The first time I set it on the top of a spare water bowl and left it in the viv. The next morning, the rat was gone. This week I tried the same thing, but that didn't work. So then I tried again a few days later with the zombie dance, but it got scared by it. And then tonight I tried turning over her hide and putting her and the rat in that. Well she didn't even sniff it in there. What should I do?
I would prefer not to switch to using a feeding tub if there is any way....

 

[chuk_138]

You should always feed your snake in a separate container in my opinion. I know a few people who feed in their bathtubs and they seem to have no problems. I would rather not have my snakes looking at my fingers like a snack every time I go in their cages. Hopefully it eats. Also, many snakes won't feed in shed, so that's another thought.

 

[GeckoTrouble]

Grab a tub for a couple of bucks at walmart
Put the snake and rat in the tub and clean the cage while snake is chowing.
This has always been the best way for me

 

[Nanci]

I'd wait two weeks from the last time she ate, then put her in a feeding container, in the evening, with a HOT mouse or rat, and just leave her for a couple hours. Set a timer.

Do you know if she was eating rats or mice? Could she be going blue?

 

[Cornsnake124]

possible she is going into blue, but she has not smoked up yet. I am not sure what she was eating.

My snakes in my personal experience don't get at me when I go to pick them up and not feed them.

Ok i'll pick up a tub at wally world and see if that will at least get her eating again....
And thanks for the advice nanci, I'll wait a few more weeks. What worries me is she is going to be breeding this year, so I want her to gain as much weight pre-breeding as she can.

 

[Caryl]

Well, I just had my first non-eater. Its an adult that I just bought. Its already had a meal and yes, I gave it a week and quarantined. I think it was fed in a feeding tub, which I do. The first time I set it on the top of a spare water bowl and left it in the viv. The next morning, the rat was gone. This week I tried the same thing, but that didn't work. So then I tried again a few days later with the zombie dance, but it got scared by it. And then tonight I tried turning over her hide and putting her and the rat in that. Well she didn't even sniff it in there. What should I do?
I would prefer not to switch to using a feeding tub if there is any way....

If you "just bought" the snake, I'd advise giving her a nice quiet place to live and minimum human bothering for a while longer. It sounds to me like you have a shy snake who isn't sure she's safe, and is thus reluctant to eat. Since the snake is an adult she's not really a non-feeder, just a on a temporary feeding strike which is a completely different case.

I'm confused about how you're feeding her. You said that you thought she'd been fed in a tub, which you do. You then list various feeding trials which were not in a separate tub.

possible she is going into blue, but she has not smoked up yet. I am not sure what she was eating.

My snakes in my personal experience don't get at me when I go to pick them up and not feed them.

Ok i'll pick up a tub at wally world and see if that will at least get her eating again....
And thanks for the advice nanci, I'll wait a few more weeks. What worries me is she is going to be breeding this year, so I want her to gain as much weight pre-breeding as she can.

There are many reasons for feeding in a separate enclosure apart from potential biting. One is that the snake learns when it's food time and gets in the mood to eat when put into the feeding place. Another is to avoid ingestion of substrate which can cause internal problems. (Not always, of course, but it's an easy risk to avoid.) Another is for general hygiene; it's a lot easier to clean a separate tub or bin than to clean the viv where the mouse-juice would breed bacteria.

I'd leave her alone except for water changes, wait one week and try feeding in a separate bin. Your bin should be large enough for her to curl up in reasonably but not so large that she can go to one end and avoid her intended meal.

Get the mouse (rats are pretty big for corns, unless she's super-huge or the rat is super-small) warm, and leave the snake and its meal ALONE in a dark place for at least two hours. Make sure the feeding bin is secure or place it inside the viv, not over the heat source. Cover the bin/viv if necessary to give her privacy.

If that doesn't work, reheat the mouse and try again, leaving her overnight. You'll probably have success, but if not, wait 5-7 days and repeat the whole process.

One thought - are you sure your corn is female? Males often go on hunger strikes in the spring. You already know that some corns stop eating before they shed. If she's a she, is it possible that she's gravid?

 

[Cornsnake124]

If you "just bought" the snake, I'd advise giving her a nice quiet place to live and minimum human bothering for a while longer. It sounds to me like you have a shy snake who isn't sure she's safe, and is thus reluctant to eat. Since the snake is an adult she's not really a non-feeder, just a on a temporary feeding strike which is a completely different case.

I'm confused about how you're feeding her. You said that you thought she'd been fed in a tub, which you do. You then list various feeding trials which were not in a separate tub.

I'd leave her alone except for water changes, wait one week and try feeding in a separate bin. Your bin should be large enough for her to curl up in reasonably but not so large that she can go to one end and avoid her intended meal.

Get the mouse (rats are pretty big for corns, unless she's super-huge or the rat is super-small) warm, and leave the snake and its meal ALONE in a dark place for at least two hours. Make sure the feeding bin is secure or place it inside the viv, not over the heat source. Cover the bin/viv if necessary to give her privacy.

I use rat pups from rodentpro. there not full sized rats.
and ok, that plan sounds good.

One thought - are you sure your corn is female? Males often go on hunger strikes in the spring. You already know that some corns stop eating before they shed. If she's a she, is it possible that she's gravid?

Thats what I thought, but she was sold as a proven female, so I don't think thats an option. I don't THINK she is gravid,but its possible retained sperm..... I can't feel any forming eggs, but my brother in law said he did, but I think she's just a tiny bit pudgy. I will post pictures of her here in the afternoon.

 

[Asbit]

I'm with the others in thinking that:
a) not enough settle in time
b) needs to be feed in a seperate container away from her viv if possible so she does not get distracted with trying to get to her fav place to hide in the viv
c) she may be in going into blue, just because she has not "smoked up" as you put it does not mean she is not going into shed. Just remember they have pre-shed, blue, clear up and actual shed, as the phases of the whole process. I have an adult female here who will never miss a meal unless in shed!!

 

[Cornsnake124]

I'm with the others in thinking that:
a) not enough settle in time

the prefered settle in time is a week to 10 days.... I gave her 10 days, and she ate the first try.

b) needs to be feed in a seperate container away from her viv if possible so she does not get distracted with trying to get to her fav place to hide in the viv
c) she may be in going into blue, just because she has not "smoked up" as you put it does not mean she is not going into shed. Just remember they have pre-shed, blue, clear up and actual shed, as the phases of the whole process. I have an adult female here who will never miss a meal unless in shed!!

ok, I can do all that...

 

[Cornsnake124]

no luck this week

I got the feeding tub and did the stuff you said and no luck
Im going to try again in 5 days, maybe by then we will have some clue of why she is not eating.

 

[Cornsnake124]

LOOK AT THIS!!!!!!!!! is it a regurge that happened right after she ate it? Im really getting worried now!!!!!!!

 

[Asbit]

When did this happen, I understood by your last post your snake did not eat and that you would try again in 5 days??

 

[Cornsnake124]

i didnt look very close the very first post, then i was going to clean it out and i found that!

 

[Asbit]

Ok am I misunderstanding something here, or are you saying that the mouse in that picture was in that bucket for 15+ days now????

It does look to me like the snake tried to eat it and either spit it back up or got it all the way down and (I am assuming here) you did not move it back in to the viv for quite some time after you fed it and then before you fed it, it did indeed regurge it.

Of some concern or curiosity to me is the fact that it almost looks like there is some white urates or something under the mouse's back end and near it.

Do you have any idea what the snake was being kept on before you got it?
Are you sure it was being fed in a feeding container?
Could it possibly have ingested something and have an impaction?
Can you reach the former owners and ask questions?
1) What substrate was it on/
2) Where was it fed?
3) Did it have any feeding problems?
4) When was the last time they fed it?
5) Has it ever regurged/thrown up for them?

As well I would take a look at the snakes mouth and look for signs of stomatitis/mouth rot, as the whitish stuff also kind of looks possibly cheesy. Maybe this snake has stomatitis and the sore is so bad that in spite of trying to eat, it caused to much pain and/or ruptured a sore and the snake gave up and spat the meal out.

On another note, with out trying to be rude, waiting 15+ days to clean your feeding tubs is so unhygienic and filthy, that you are just asking for disease and viral issues which can harm or kill your snakes, some of which can get into the plastic and never be completely removed. Not to mention I can not understand how you could not have smelt that, if I feed my snakes in the evening and leave the feeding tubs til the am to dishwasher, the smell is already getting strong!!

 

[oldsnow]

I'm hoping you are trying to say that you tried to feed, and just glanced in to check and still saw the mouse in there on this most recent feed. Then after returning the snake to the viv you went to clean the feeding tub and looked closer at the mouse and saw what is pictured. If that's not exactly what you are saying then as asbit said, there are some serious cleaning issues when it comes to your tubs.

 

[Cornsnake124]

Ok am I misunderstanding something here, or are you saying that the mouse in that picture was in that bucket for 15+ days now????

No, it was from last night. Its what OldSnow thought i meant, see my comment to him below.

It does look to me like the snake tried to eat it and either spit it back up or got it all the way down and (I am assuming here) you did not move it back in to the viv for quite some time after you fed it and then before you fed it, it did indeed regurge it.

I was thinking the spit up theory. No, she was left for around 4-8 hours aprox. to eat.

Of some concern or curiosity to me is the fact that it almost looks like there is some white urates or something under the mouse's back end and near it.

Do you have any idea what the snake was being kept on before you got it?

Do you mean what type of food?

Are you sure it was being fed in a feeding container?

Unless my memory is very bad, i remember asking the seller how he was feeding her. If I recall correctly which I am almost sure I did, he said that she was being fed in a feeding tub.

Could it possibly have ingested something and have an impaction?

Unless she swallowed some of her bedding on her own, no.

Can you reach the former owners and ask questions?

Yes, im planning on doing that tonight.

1) What substrate was it on/

not sure

2) Where was it fed?

feeding tub

3) Did it have any feeding problems?

Not that im aware of.

4) When was the last time they fed it?

I believe a week before shipping.

5) Has it ever regurged/thrown up for them?

Unknown.
I can ask them all those questions to make sure also. (which i think is how you intended it)

As well I would take a look at the snakes mouth and look for signs of stomatitis/mouth rot, as the whitish stuff also kind of looks possibly cheesy. Maybe this snake has stomatitis and the sore is so bad that in spite of trying to eat, it caused to much pain and/or ruptured a sore and the snake gave up and spat the meal out.

ok.

On another note, with out trying to be rude, waiting 15+ days to clean your feeding tubs is so unhygienic and filthy, that you are just asking for disease and viral issues which can harm or kill your snakes, some of which can get into the plastic and never be completely removed. Not to mention I can not understand how you could not have smelt that, if I feed my snakes in the evening and leave the feeding tubs til the am to dishwasher, the smell is already getting strong!!

I'll disgregaurd this since i already answered this question. By first post i meant first post today, not the post of this thread.
I could hardly take the smell of that ratt just getting out of the feeding container.... uke01:

I'm hoping you are trying to say that you tried to feed, and just glanced in to check and still saw the mouse in there on this most recent feed. Then after returning the snake to the viv you went to clean the feeding tub and looked closer at the mouse and saw what is pictured. If that's not exactly what you are saying then as asbit said, there are some serious cleaning issues when it comes to your tubs.

Your first theory would be correct. I glanced in the first time to check and just saw the rat still in there after the latest feed. and then when i went to clean the feeding tub i found what is in the picture.

 

[Caryl]

:headbang:

LOOK AT THIS!!!!!!!!! is it a regurge that happened right after she ate it? Im really getting worried now!!!!!!!

When did this happen, I understood by your last post your snake did not eat and that you would try again in 5 days??

i didnt look very close the very first post, then i was going to clean it out and i found that!

I can't see the picture, but I don't understand at all. Seeing the picture wouldn't clarify the textual confusion.

Previous posts said that the snake didn't eat. How was this determined? When was this prey item offered? You state that you were "Going to clean it out" and 4-8 hours had elapsed. This is a pretty wide variance. You asl stat that you found the item when you cleaned out the bin(?). How is it possible to miss this?

I'm sorry, maybe it's me, but none of this makes sense when taken together. :headbang:

 

[Asbit]

Cornsnake124

Like I had said, no offense was meant and I was unsure of whether you meant the "since the very first post as you stated or meant since you tried to feed her that day".

All of the questions I listed for you were to ask the previous owners, including if she ate any substrate, that was not directed at you. I would find out all of those answers and then come back with them. In the mean time, I would order her some NutriBac from Kathy Love as she taught me that it is a good idea to give it to each newly acquired snake as you have no idea what stress or conditions it dealt with previous to living with you. By giving it some NutriBac, if the gut flora is unbalanced you help the snake quickly restore the balance and allow it to get things off to a good start.

You need to check in her mouth and look for sores, red gums, cheesy looking gunk. If you see any of the above, I would take her to a vet, some other more experienced people here may be able to advise on ways to try to treat it at home.

You also need to make sure the temps are stabilized and correct and that she has at least two hides for thermoregulation. I know you are probably aware of this but just a reminder that sometimes these things are caused by husbandry issues and to look for the simple fixes.

If you find no sores, no problems with your husbandry and no red flags in your conversation with the previous owners then personally, if it was my snake, would treat this as a regurge and start regurge protocol (for at least the first couple of steps if not the entire process). In other words, I would wait 10 days and give nothing but water and NutriBac by syringe or in the water dish. Then I would offer a very tiny meal and see what happens with it(say a peach fuzzy). I would make sure I cut the skin of the mouse open in several spots or from the head to the tail(helps stomach acid get into the mouse and start the digestion process quickly). When you offer her food I would check on her every 1-2 hours when food is offered and as soon as she has eaten put her back in the viv as she may have a delicate stomach and may need to get to heat ASAP to start the digestion process and prevent regurge.

These are my thoughts, and what I would do if she was mine.

 

[Hallie]

In regards to the picture: It doesn't look like she ate and regurged. I've seen that happen, and the rat would not look that nice (even after just being partially down, not even to the stomach). It looks like she didn't want it and took a poo on it, just to show you her displeasure.

In regards to above mentioned poo: It doesn't look like a healthy poo. I would suggest taking her to the vet and having them run a fecal.

In regards to her not eating: I have females that refuse to eat this time of year. Most of my males refuse to eat as well. So, if you're sure it is a female, I would say don't worry about it just yet (as long as she isn't showing signs of illness, and the fecal comes back okay). Just keep offering food like you have been, although maybe make them smaller meals. Some of my girls only want a hopper or a weanling (especially if they are gravid and still willing to eat).

Also, I hope she is still quarantined...new snakes should be quarantined away from the rest of your established collection for more than 10 days, I would say 2-3 months is good for a quarantine period for corns.

 

[Cornsnake124]

:headbang:






I can't see the picture, but I don't understand at all. Seeing the picture wouldn't clarify the textual confusion.

Previous posts said that the snake didn't eat. How was this determined? When was this prey item offered? You state that you were "Going to clean it out" and 4-8 hours had elapsed. This is a pretty wide variance. You asl stat that you found the item when you cleaned out the bin(?). How is it possible to miss this?

I'm sorry, maybe it's me, but none of this makes sense when taken together. :headbang:

ok.... I will start from the beginning........

When I first posted this thread I listed different things I tried to get her to eat. Then I tried to feed her on the 18th, which was unsuccessful because i was afraid to fully put on the lid so she just slithered out. (good thing I had the tub in her cage)

Then the most recent time I put air holes in the tub so I wasn't paranoid (even though the lid was not airtight) and tried again. I then glanced into her cage after I gave her a few hours over night, and just saw the rat still in there, so I posted on here to say that. Then I went to clean it out later that morning and I found what is pictured. I don't really know why you cant see the pic though......


I didn't find any "cheese" around her mouth, but I did find some odd scales on her lower sides/upper belly. They were slightly filmy, and some were slightly loose on her. could this be pieces of an old bad shed? or maybe one just starting? Maybe Scale Rot?

All of the questions I listed for you were to ask the previous owners, including if she ate any substrate, that was not directed at you. I would find out all of those answers and then come back with them. In the mean time, I would order her some NutriBac from Kathy Love as she taught me that it is a good idea to give it to each newly acquired snake as you have no idea what stress or conditions it dealt with previous to living with you. By giving it some NutriBac, if the gut flora is unbalanced you help the snake quickly restore the balance and allow it to get things off to a good start.

Ok. I will ask him all of those questions. Does she have the NutriBac on her website?

You need to check in her mouth and look for sores, red gums, cheesy looking gunk.

Ok. In her mouth? Do i just get her to open it or just pry it open?

You also need to make sure the temps are stabilized and correct and that she has at least two hides for thermoregulation. I know you are probably aware of this but just a reminder that sometimes these things are caused by husbandry issues and to look for the simple fixes.

Yes, she has 2 hides and all that. But I have been having some temp problems. Do you know if those probe thermometers from Big apple are acurate? temps have been hovering in the low 70's lately, though I have my BAH Thermostat at 90. (I had a BAH before for my incubator, thats where it had to be to get around 85) The one difference is that I am using a heat pad instead of FlexWatt. Could this have a difference?

f it was my snake, would treat this as a regurge and start regurge protocol (for at least the first couple of steps if not the entire process). In other words, I would wait 10 days and give nothing but water and NutriBac by syringe or in the water dish. Then I would offer a very tiny meal and see what happens with it(say a peach fuzzy). I would make sure I cut the skin of the mouse open in several spots or from the head to the tail(helps stomach acid get into the mouse and start the digestion process quickly). When you offer her food I would check on her every 1-2 hours when food is offered and as soon as she has eaten put her back in the viv as she may have a delicate stomach and may need to get to heat ASAP to start the digestion process and prevent regurge.

Ok. Can I use Large mice pinky's? I don't have any PF's on hand, but i have one or two bags of pinky's for my hatchlings.

Ok.

in regards to the picture: It doesn't look like she ate and regurged. I've seen that happen, and the rat would not look that nice (even after just being partially down, not even to the stomach). It looks like she didn't want it and took a poo on it, just to show you her displeasure.

lol :grin01:

In regards to above mentioned poo: It doesn't look like a healthy poo. I would suggest taking her to the vet and having them run a fecal.

Ok. Does the feces have to be really fresh? If so, how do I collect it if she is not eating?

In regards to her not eating: I have females that refuse to eat this time of year. Most of my males refuse to eat as well. So, if you're sure it is a female, I would say don't worry about it just yet (as long as she isn't showing signs of illness, and the fecal comes back okay). Just keep offering food like you have been, although maybe make them smaller meals. Some of my girls only want a hopper or a weanling (especially if they are gravid and still willing to eat).

Ok. Same question to you as to asbit regaurding the pinkys... what should I do about breeding season though? I really don't want to breed her when she is not eating, and its coming up fast. (im trying march and april this year because last year with my other snake she would not breed in march but april was the jackpot)

what should I do about that?