scales?

My 5 year old snake appears to be losing scales? He is in a 55 gal aquarium by himself which has a warm end and a cool end and averages about 78 degrees on a normal day and the humidity ranges between 40 and 50%. The other week my apartment heat went all out of whack though and shot my apartment up to 88-90 degrees for about a week. I opened the windows in his room but I think it may have still been to warm. He doesnt have any signs of mites or discolorations. Since that week his skin has gotten rough and hes appeared to be having clear bits of almost shed like material curl up here and there on his back. Now he seems to be dropping scales. Ive been soaking him in temperate water for ~7 minutes a night for the last few nights which has softened him back up again but Im concerned about the loss of what appear to be scales. If noone has any ideas, I will take him to a vet but I had hoped to avoid having to take him out in the cold and deal with a vet that may do more harm than good if it was something that I can take care of myself. Any ideas?

if you see that his skin is getting better, keep doing what ur doing. and if he's eatting then hes probably fine. otherwise it sounds like hes got nothing to complain about.

My suggestion is to continue soaking regularly...if you do not see an improvement within another week...I would take it to the vet...

Sounds like a dehydration problem...I have a milksnake that has been completely dried out since oct. and I soak her for an hour every night. I believe her eyes may have dried out now as well...so she will be blind...and she has made no recovery...but is VERY active and still eats...and she is definitely alert...mouth looks good....I took her to the vet and she had a clean bill of health OTHER than this extremely severe dehydration. If she wasn't so active and alert I would have euthanized her by now...every night the thought crosses my mind...but she moves and flicks her tongue and the whole nine yards...hopefully she will come around...but I haven't seen any improvement yet.

ouch. at least she still seems happy. i met a rainbow boa once that had dried out to the point of having its eyes look wrinkled and dry. but that one was lucky and after rebuilding the tank to have half of it be a pool his eyes finally returned to normal. no idea if he could see but he acted like it. i hope yours gets better!

Can you not place a cool hide in the viv? Like a hot water bottle, only with cold water... An area where he can go to cool down? I don't know, maybe that's a bad idea... I definitely agree to keep soaking him though.

Actually... what about olive oil or some sort of shed aid? Would that help, do you think?

I'm so sorry... I really have no useful imformation here.

I keep his waterbowl on the cool side of the tank and its large enough for him to sit in if he wanted to.

BTW, since no one replied to my question in this thread, I asked around about olive oil. After about 15 minutes of being made fun of (jr. high school style), I learned that it is good for mites (or was it ticks?), NOT shedding or rehydrating the skin (thanks JM).

So don't use olive oil. It would think it might even be counter productive.

Sorry for no reply...I wouldn't use any type of oil or even petroleum jelly (Vaseline) to rehydrate...

I have tried UNFLAVORED PEDIALYTE...this was on the unresponsive snake I mentioned above...so I don't know how well it truly works (since NOTHING works for this individual snake!!)...have heard very good things about it, though.

Personally I just use purified water...I have a whole house purifier...so I use my tap water...would probably recommend distilled over tap for most people. And be sure the temps are good...I have gotten VERY good at guessing (I have been doing this every night for almost 3 months)...it should feel cool to the touch...I would temp it to be in the ballpark...even 80 F water feels very cool to the human touch.

Alias47 said:

Personally I just use purified water...I have a whole house purifier...so I use my tap water...would probably recommend distilled over tap for most people. And be sure the temps are good...I have gotten VERY good at guessing (I have been doing this every night for almost 3 months)...it should feel cool to the touch...I would temp it to be in the ballpark...even 80 F water feels very cool to the human touch.

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You've been bathing your snake every night for 3 months? Wouldn't this (if anything) cause dry scales?

If you read my post above...it states the condition...

This snake would be dead without daily bathing...she has been to the vet repeatedly...has a clean bill of health...OTHER than being completely dehydrated...

COMPLETELY...to the point of not being able to move properly, until I bathe her.
She still is VERY active...tongue flicking...mouth looks good inside...she still is strong...and she still eats without regurging...and if it wasn't for her activity and awareness I would have euthanized her by now...she can't be very comfortable.
I put drops on her eyes every night and morning...she developed scute rot from the soaking early on...but this has been treated and is almost completely healed...I even inject 1cc of sterile saline into her prey items to attempt to introduce more fluids into her system. She drinks for me daily...and a lot...just never rehydrates...

I am at a loss for what else to do...other than follow my herp vets recommendation.

I have tried taking her off of baths for a couple of days here and there...and she almost gets BRITTLE...don't want her to die by dehyration.
I can think of much more humane ways to euthanize her.

Oh wow... The reason I asked is because I (myself) take a lot of baths, but in the winter especially, if I take too many my skin gets VERY dry. I do know that olive oil (as well as jojoba, grapeseed, flax, almond, apricot, safflower, etc) is very healthy for OUR skin/hair but I didn't know how it would be for a snakes scales (and since I have heard of olive oil being used on snakes, I didn't know if it would help with this particular condition).

I'm so sorry to hear about your snake Derek.

For her to uncontrollably loose fluids that way, despite drinking, she is losing it abnormally somewhere. Any sign where? Does she excrete an abnormal amount of urates/watery fluid? Are her scales and skin normal? Two big things I'd think of would be an inability of her kidneys to concentrate/resorb water so she loses fluid...but you should see increased fluid excretion tinted with urates. Otherwise I worry about her skin and if she has a disorder that makes her lose water through her skin abnormally/excessively.


How old is she, by the way? Did she just start the problem suddenly?

At this point Derek, I'm wondering if her body can even retain water. It does sound like if it could, she would be a completely healthy snake, but I'm wondering if euthinizing her would really be best. Is there possibly something genetic that could be keeping her from being able to stay hydrated? I don't know if I could handle taking care of a snake that doesn't look to be recovering after three months. It almost sounds like a lost cause to me. But as long as you're willing to keep the process up, keep us posted on how she's doing.

Hurley said:

For her to uncontrollably loose fluids that way, despite drinking, she is losing it abnormally somewhere. Any sign where? Does she excrete an abnormal amount of urates/watery fluid? Are her scales and skin normal? Two big things I'd think of would be an inability of her kidneys to concentrate/resorb water so she loses fluid...but you should see increased fluid excretion tinted with urates. Otherwise I worry about her skin and if she has a disorder that makes her lose water through her skin abnormally/excessively.


How old is she, by the way? Did she just start the problem suddenly?

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She is an '04...hatched around June, I believe. The problem started VERY suddenly...she was always in perfect health...one day she had a VERY abnormal shed...it was coming off in VERY small pieces...almost like flaking rather than shedding...this was the beginning...after the flaking was "done" her scales were very dry...and her whole body dries up overnight...she still moves but is very stiff...both eyes are completely opaque now...one has been the whole time through...the other went opaque about a month ago...I still use the drops...almost like she has retained eyecaps...or is unable to shed properly...I am guessing at this point, due to the dehydration, she is probably blind. Her skins is definitely no where near normal. The best description I can give you is she looks like skin with the tips of scales...the scales are very unhealthy...I will email you a picture on Monday...I will be out of the office until then...and don't want to post a milksnake picture here.

Hard to tell where she would be loosing fluid...her mouth is in good shape...from what I can tell...and she usually discharges (urates/bm) while bathing...I have NOT seen any normal urates...but I assume they would dissolve in the water. I would have to assume it is her skin that is causing these problems...like it just can't retain the moisture...it definitely takes a lot in when she is soaking.

She is actually my sons snake...another reason she hasn't been euthanized...but I have prepared him for the fact that it may happen...every time I think it...she surprises me, though...I almost decided to just do it and get it over with this morning...and I went into the room where her tank is and she was out cruising around the tank...well as best she can anyhow.
So active...the only thing that keeps me going with her.

I have had a fecal done...and it came back negative for anything.
And whatever it is...it definitely isn't contagious...she is housed in a divided tank with a Thayer's Kingsnake in the other side...and the king is still completely healthy...they were both purchased at the same time from the same place.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated...

Alias47 said:

Sorry for no reply...I wouldn't use any type of oil or even petroleum jelly (Vaseline) to rehydrate...

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I actuly had a vet recomend Vaseline for when Annabella riped her skin on some odd looking scales around her neck, presumably scar tissue, to rehydrate them.
??

Bluebeard said:

I actuly had a vet recomend Vaseline for when Annabella riped her skin on some odd looking scales around her neck, presumably scar tissue, to rehydrate them.
??

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I can sort of understand using oils or vasoline for use as a moisturizer (for lack of a better word) but the problem here is dehydration, not dry skin. I don't know ANYTHING about this, but Hurley makes complete sense when she says it's likely kidney related... in which case no "topical aid" would help (I obviously misunderstood the original post when I asked about olive oil and it's uses on snakes).

If it's as bad as it sounds though, and if the snake is suffering, unfortunatly there's only really 1 solution.

[beauty queen mode] Vaseline doesn't add moisture or rehydrate but it does act as a 'seal' locking it in [/beauty queen mode]

This thread is so sad, wishing you both the best of luck
Derek I cannot believe your snake is still active and eating, she must be a real fighter. Hang in there..

im a bad judge of temperature so i have an aquarium thermometer that i toss into the bath water to make sure i get it right

Bluebeard said:

I actuly had a vet recomend Vaseline for when Annabella riped her skin on some odd looking scales around her neck, presumably scar tissue, to rehydrate them.
??

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I use triple antibiotic (petrolatum based) on the scabs on my milks scutes from the soaking...or on an injury...but not to rehydrate.

Tracee said:

Derek I cannot believe your snake is still active and eating, she must be a real fighter. Hang in there..

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She amazes me...I was gone for the weekend..so no soak on Saturday...
I came home yesterday...and there she is...all dried out...and trying to move around the enclosure...flicking her tongue...and acting like a normal snake...
She has gotten a TON of personality from all the holding (and annoyingly so...not like it is casual handling...I have to check her mouth...and check her belly and vent...and all the stuff that would make ANY of my other snakes CRAZY) and she just deals with it...she even comes out when I come into the room now...like she just wants to get it over with....LOL

Snakemom47: It took many weeks of checking water temps with an Infrared Thermometer before I was comfortable doing it by hand.