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Buf and caramel from one clutch

slangenbroed

New member
Here is the difference between caramel and buf theese animals are from the same clutch Orange x Normalstriped het caramel the orange is het caramel i didn't now that
The rest is on www.slangenbroed.nl under the button BUF
 

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Yes, you did. It was suggested to you numerous times that what you're seeing in your "Buff" and "Orange" could possibly be from a Caramel influence. ;)

In holland we say now my shoes fall off.
7 yaers ago people say that it was caramel ore amber to prove they where not writh i bred that animal to a amel het caramel and the outcom was normal buf amel and orange non caramels ore butters and this male was comming from that breed and got the caramel from his father he was het caramel,so how could i now that he was het caramel until now.
 
I don't see a whole lot of variation in those two snakes...not even in head or dorsal patterning.

What I DO see is a photoshopped picture that has had levels adjusted and lightnened at a minimum...:rolleyes:
 
Looks like two regular caramel hatchlings to me. I don't understand this whole Buff and Orange thing. What are we talking about here?
 
7 yaers ago people say that it was caramel ore amber to prove they where not writh i bred that animal to a amel het caramel and the outcom was normal buf amel and orange non caramels ore butters and this male was comming from that breed and got the caramel from his father he was het caramel,so how could i now that he was het caramel until now.

That's why you should have used something homo Caramel, better odds. Just because you didn't produce Caramels or Butters your first breeding doesn't nix Caramel (it can just mean you missed the odds). Heck, I did Butter Motley x Caramel het Amel Motley this year and produced no Caramel Motleys...
 
Looks like two regular caramel hatchlings to me. I don't understand this whole Buff and Orange thing. What are we talking about here?

I don't have any idea. Apparently, he is thinking that he has a new gene with "buf", and is trying to prove it out.

To the OP...I hope you can prove it out, but...what good is a brand new gene if it looks and acts precisely like a gene that is already widely distributed? And if you want to prove that "buf" and caramel are not the same gene and don't co-exist or compliment each other at the same locus...why are you not using homozygous animals for testing? That would GREATLY increase your odds of success, as well as greatly DEcrease your odds of confusing results...

And...just to help me understand...what is "orange"? And please don't tell me it's a color...;).
 
And...just to help me understand...what is "orange"? And please don't tell me it's a color...;).

It isn't a color...it is a fruit! :cool:

Just kidding, I have no idea what they are talking about either, I just couldn't resist.
 
I gotta defend slangenbroed's animals. There seems to be a lot of skeptisism about his animals, which I completely understand. When I first saw buffs, I was not fully convinced he had a new gene. Of course, there is no way to be 100% certain now either.

Just a few weeks ago I went to see these animals first hand. I'm not going to discuss breeding practices, or even the results. What I want to say, is to my relatively untrained eye, his oranges appear different from amels. Different enough to allow me to say there is another gene influencing their coloration. These animals dont just happen to be different looking. The oranges are what convinced me, not the buffs. Some are going to say, "then what about the buffs, what are they?" The only way to know for sure is to look at the breeding record, and even then it might be difficult. :shrugs:

I won't discount the idea that caramel is involved, but I honestly don't see how.:shrugs: Neither adult buffs nor adult oranges appear like adult caramels and butters. It is possible that buff, or some other gene that is effecting oranges, is on the same locus as caramel of course.

I can tell you, that image is NOT photoshopped. Jan was very passionate about his animals, and believes in this possible new gene, and wants others to see them in a good light. I believe, from the hour or two talking to him about his snakes, that he wouldn't photoshop an image to push them forward.

Thats what I can say for the possible buff gene. there are plenty of other factors involved. But i do think there is something new here.

Jan, hope you dont mind me posting this.
 
I won't discount the idea that caramel is involved, but I honestly don't see how.:shrugs: Neither adult buffs nor adult oranges appear like adult caramels and butters. It is possible that buff, or some other gene that is effecting oranges, is on the same locus as caramel of course.

Caramel can influence (can, not guaranteed) the look of a het. Sometimes they will have more yellow to them then a non-het. That is why it was suggested that the original "Buffs" & "Oranges" be bred to a homozygous Caramel (which wasn't done according to what he said).

I can tell you, that image is NOT photoshopped. Jan was very passionate about his animals, and believes in this possible new gene, and wants others to see them in a good light. I believe, from the hour or two talking to him about his snakes, that he wouldn't photoshop an image to push them forward.

Either the photo was screwed with or the camera is really bad. The photo is definitely off. I don't think anyone was implying that he was trying to make them look better, because he didn't. I also couldn't imagine someone trying to make the photo worse then the original. ;)
 
Ok, thanks, just wanted to make sure, ya know. Sorry about the misunderstanding Tyflier.

I wasn't sure about the het caramel thing. I had noticed more yellow in my het caramel hatchlings, but was never sure the extent of the effect.

Ahhh I see now, those posts make even more sense now, lol.
 
That's why you should have used something homo Caramel, better odds. Just because you didn't produce Caramels or Butters your first breeding doesn't nix Caramel (it can just mean you missed the odds). Heck, I did Butter Motley x Caramel het Amel Motley this year and produced no Caramel Motleys...

sorry if it was caramel why do i get orange in stad of butter
 
I don't have any idea. Apparently, he is thinking that he has a new gene with "buf", and is trying to prove it out.

To the OP...I hope you can prove it out, but...what good is a brand new gene if it looks and acts precisely like a gene that is already widely distributed? And if you want to prove that "buf" and caramel are not the same gene and don't co-exist or compliment each other at the same locus...why are you not using homozygous animals for testing? That would GREATLY increase your odds of success, as well as greatly DEcrease your odds of confusing results...

And...just to help me understand...what is "orange"? And please don't tell me it's a color...;).
Orange is the combo from buf and amel and if you go to www.slangenbroed.nl and see the story than it never had anything to do with caramel this is dominant and taht is what i say at leas 4 years
 
I gotta defend slangenbroed's animals. There seems to be a lot of skeptisism about his animals, which I completely understand. When I first saw buffs, I was not fully convinced he had a new gene. Of course, there is no way to be 100% certain now either.

Just a few weeks ago I went to see these animals first hand. I'm not going to discuss breeding practices, or even the results. What I want to say, is to my relatively untrained eye, his oranges appear different from amels. Different enough to allow me to say there is another gene influencing their coloration. These animals dont just happen to be different looking. The oranges are what convinced me, not the buffs. Some are going to say, "then what about the buffs, what are they?" The only way to know for sure is to look at the breeding record, and even then it might be difficult. :shrugs:

I won't discount the idea that caramel is involved, but I honestly don't see how.:shrugs: Neither adult buffs nor adult oranges appear like adult caramels and butters. It is possible that buff, or some other gene that is effecting oranges, is on the same locus as caramel of course.

I can tell you, that image is NOT photoshopped. Jan was very passionate about his animals, and believes in this possible new gene, and wants others to see them in a good light. I believe, from the hour or two talking to him about his snakes, that he wouldn't photoshop an image to push them forward.

Thats what I can say for the possible buff gene. there are plenty of other factors involved. But i do think there is something new here.

Jan, hope you dont mind me posting this.
No problem you are the 3e man ever seen this animals ,and the thru you can tell that is what i do to.And i don't like thediscussion again and again i will go further with this project,and what some people wil say and think so bee it as you now i am a little breeder and when i was a big breeder the dollars where rolling and nobody will discus those animals.

Greatings Jan

Schame that you couln,t get animals to amerika from here( i had give you a couple for free)maybee nex time
 
sorry if it was caramel why do i get orange in stad of butter

BECAUSE YOU NEVER USED A HOMOZYGOUS CARAMEL WHEN YOU DID THE ONE PAIRING YOU TESTED THIS AGAINST CARAMEL. :headbang:

Orange is the combo from buf and amel and if you go to www.slangenbroed.nl and see the story than it never had anything to do with caramel this is dominant and taht is what i say at leas 4 years

In this post, you stated:

"7 years ago a bred a amel x normal het amel outcome NORMALS -AMELS AND ONE ANIMAL THAT WAS DIFFERENT Brownyellow its was a clutch off 14 eggs"

Which means it is not Dominant / Co-Dominant. If it were, one of the parents of the original Brown-Yellow/Buff would have been Brown-Yellow/Buff.

In that same post you also state:

"Orange x Buf = amels-orange-normals and buf"

If "Orange" was the Amelanistic version of "Buff" you wouldn't get Amels and Normals from Orange x Buff if it were Dominant / Co-Dominant.
 
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