Buf and caramel from one clutch

[LauraT]

That's interesting. This year I had a clutch from a crossing caramel x amel. Didn't know the het's of these animals. Outcome: 3 anery, 2 caramel, 2 amel and one animal that seemed a bit yellowish/orange in comparison to the amels. First I thought of butter but after showing the picture to many people I'd only got the reaction: "no, can't be butter, much too yellow. Seems more like creamsicle" but that's not possible with this combination. Besides when I took a better look at the animal I also doubted butter, they're much more yellow. One person mentioned this Buf colour. I didn't found much about it but here it is. What's the opinion about this one? It's the more yellow one on the picture.

Unfortionately the animal died but I wanna repeat the combination. Opinions?

Thanks in advance!

 

[slangenbroed]

That's interesting. This year I had a clutch from a crossing caramel x amel. Didn't know the het's of these animals. Outcome: 3 anery, 2 caramel, 2 amel and one animal that seemed a bit yellowish/orange in comparison to the amels. First I thought of butter but after showing the picture to many people I'd only got the reaction: "no, can't be butter, much too yellow. Seems more like creamsicle" but that's not possible with this combination. Besides when I took a better look at the animal I also doubted butter, they're much more yellow. One person mentioned this Buf colour. I didn't found much about it but here it is. What's the opinion about this one? It's the more yellow one on the picture.

Unfortionately the animal died but I wanna repeat the combination. Opinions?

Thanks in advance!

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have sold animal from this project to a petshop in the town Echt ( Limburg)it was in 2004 i belief and i sold them as normals and i sold them caramels to but not from the buf project.Is it possible that yours there from.He was at a show at the pinkpopstadion in schaersberg several times.

 

[Drizzt80]

Thanks for the tips now we are getting somewhere without step on people

I'm sorry, but this is just a blatant attempt to thank someone else for helping you when 2 years, 2 years ago, you were told exactly what you needed to do: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39057

This snake that you shared in the linked thread is DARKER than the Caramel het Amel that I just posted above that you said isn't a "buf".

You are now 2 years, or more, further behind proving anything.

I do this for hobby not for living!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then why the rush to breed the "buf" and "orange" to everything under the sun instead of taking the steps necessary to prove it?

Again, check out these links:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8153&highlight=Translucent+Hypos
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27322

D80

 

[slangenbroed]

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have sold animal from this project to a petshop in the town Echt ( Limburg)it was in 2004 i belief and i sold them as normals and i sold them caramels to but not from the buf project.Is it possible that yours there from.He was at a show at the pinkpopstadion in schaersberg several times.

and amels from that same project.

Please let me now where you'r from

 

[Drizzt80]

Now, are you ready for this? According to the "logic" you are trying to use to prove the "buf" and "orange" genes, I have the following which has increased the value of my collection:

These are ALL Normals. They are obviously extremely different from each other visually. Through the years, they have produced various hatchlings that look the same as the parents, very different from the parents and different from each other . . . even within the same clutches. According to your logic, they are different genes, and therefore I have some naming to do in the next few weeks so that I can distinguish them. Right?

I do this as a hobby too. Regardless of whether it's to make money, make a living, or to have fun, you need to take the steps necessary to prove yourself. It was recommended to you 2 years ago how to go about this, you ignored those recommendations and are now upset . . . again . . . that noone believes you. Funny thing is I would love to believe you, but I can't.

Good luck, I look forward to whichever direction this leads.
D80

 

[slangenbroed]

I'm sorry, but this is just a blatant attempt to thank someone else for helping you when 2 years, 2 years ago, you were told exactly what you needed to do: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39057

This snake that you shared in the linked thread is DARKER than the Caramel het Amel that I just posted above that you said isn't a "buf".

You are now 2 years, or more, further behind proving anything.

Then why the rush to breed the "buf" and "orange" to everything under the sun instead of taking the steps necessary to prove it?






D80

There is also say to get to animals who don't have the caramel gene and i did that with lavender.And the buf look like a caramel to a part but it is different and it developed different than a caramel.I don't have any rush i couldn't get a pure caramel at that time and only bred them to lavender nothing else.I had no other animals.

 

[slangenbroed]

Now, are you ready for this? According to the "logic" you are trying to use to prove the "buf" and "orange" genes, I have the following which has increased the value of my collection:

These are ALL Normals. They are obviously extremely different from each other visually. Through the years, they have produced various hatchlings that look the same as the parents, very different from the parents and different from each other . . . even within the same clutches. According to your logic, they are different genes, and therefore I have some naming to do in the next few weeks so that I can distinguish them. Right?

I do this as a hobby too. Regardless of whether it's to make money, make a living, or to have fun, you need to take the steps necessary to prove yourself. It was recommended to you 2 years ago how to go about this, you ignored those recommendations and are now upset . . . again . . . that noone believes you. Funny thing is I would love to believe you, but I can't.

Good luck, I look forward to whichever direction this leads.
D80

Thank you maybee i was on the wrong way but i think there is something and i will prove that in the future with ore witout caramel but next year i hope to have a cramel.

No hard feelings

Greatings Jan

 

[tyflier]

Thank you maybee i was on the wrong way but i think there is something and i will prove that in the future with ore witout caramel but next year i hope to have a cramel.

No hard feelings

Greatings Jan

I hate to say this, but I do not think you will ever prove this satisfactorily without a caramel. These snakes are WAY too close in general appearance TO caramels to be proven NOT caramel without breeding trials AGAINST a caramel.

Any other breeding trials you perform will be, in my guesstimation, a moot point without first proving, irrevocably and irrefutably, that this is not merely a variation of the caramel gene. It is FAR too similar to caramel in every aspect, as far as I can see, to be "proven" anything without first proving it is not caramel.

That is my guess and my advice. For whatever it might be worth to you, there it is...

And I just want to add...I am a hobbyist breeder myself. I don't make money from what I do, and I consider myself lucky to have my offspring pay for my collection. The love of the animals and the thrill of the breeding coupled with the educational experience of the genetics is all I am in this for. But you can rest assured that if I hatched something that I believed to be a new gene, I would take every precaution and every step necessary to ENSURE POSITIVELY that what I have is what I think I have. Even if that means I have to beg every person I've ever spoken to on this forum, on other forums, and in person for breeding loans to prove it out...that is what I would do. And I would make sure that every single breeding was well documented in writing and photographically to ensure that when I introduce this "new gene" that I discovered...it would be accepted for what it is, and the proof would be plain and scientifically accurate for all to see.

 

[LauraT]

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have sold animal from this project to a petshop in the town Echt ( Limburg)it was in 2004 i belief and i sold them as normals and i sold them caramels to but not from the buf project.Is it possible that yours there from.He was at a show at the pinkpopstadion in schaersberg several times.

I don't think it came from you. I live in Groningen, you? My caramel mother I bought from someone near Groningen. She's a '03/'04 probably. The father is an amel zigzag which I bought from Bas Scholten, you probably know him. He bought the animal in France. Also funny, first I thought all the 'darker' animals were anery, now two of them are getting a different colour and I'm almost certain it's caramel more and more everyday, but very dark ones! This was an interesting and surprising clutch. First one as well and I would have already been glad if not all of them were classics. Next year I hope another animal like the yellow one will come out and I'm keeping some of the young ones from this clutch to see what they will give.

 

[Ssthisto]

And JoeJr is right...if "buf" were dominant or co-dom, one of the parents of that first animal would have been "buf".

Unless of course it is a new point mutation.

I would personally very much like for Buff to be a brand new Dominant Xanthic mutation.

But I absolutely agree it must be tested against a homozygous caramel (and if you can identify that some of the clutch are clearly Buff, some of them are clearly Caramel and some of them are clearly Normal ....) and against normals het nothing as well... no caramel history or better still proven NOT het caramel.

 

[slangenbroed]

Unless of course it is a new point mutation.Some people say that is not possible, but i think it could happend here.
I would personally very much like for Buff to be a brand new Dominant Xanthic mutation.I was thinking the same but i cal it buf until there is more clearness about this thing.

But I absolutely agree it must be tested against a homozygous caramel I agree but at that first breeding i had no caramel only a amel het caramel(and if you can identify that some of the clutch are clearly Buff, some of them are clearly Caramel and some of them are clearly Normal .... i think that is wat happend this year from orange het caramelx striped het caramel outcome normal buf and caramel) and against normals het nothing as well...Difficult to get here no caramel history or better still proven NOT het caramel.I think that the buf het amel females from 2004 are not het caramel becouse i bred them to the orange het caramel male from 2004 and i had never got a caramel ore a butter from that breedings.That the orange is het caramel i didn't now until this year when i bred him to the striped het caramel.And i did several breedings where no caramel was involved and stil i get the orange and buf as outcome.[/QUOTE]
I did not wanting the breedings with caramel becouse buf and caramel are close to eachother, therefore i bred it to other colours.I don't now if you was on my site www.slangenbroed.nl there is the hole story

greatings

Jan