Burnt

[ceduke]

Hi Zombie thread!

 

[Lyion]

Hi Zombie thread!

Lol :nyah:

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I'm kinda glad this thread popped up though it was a good read.

 

[screamindemon17]

I second that

 

[Nanci]

Let's reexamine how I feel nearly a year later...

I think there is something wrong with me. I started with one cornsnake in 2005. Now I have 80, counting the babies and snakes here on loan. I still find feeding, weighing, photographing to be relaxing and enjoyable. Even when I do it for days and days in a row. I have the snakes broken up into groups so I only feed about 15 at a time, usually. I can do that in an hour, easily. The only things that get me down, really, are deformed or DIE babies, and hatchlings that won't eat. But that just makes me feel like not breeding, not like getting out of snakes. It's very very hard for me to part with an adult I've raised since it was a baby, even if I know it has no place in my breeding projects. Since I am at the limit of space I have, to be able to keep the snakes in the size bins I like, and also because I feel like I am at a comfortable number, time wise, it is also very difficult for a new snake to find a home here. But I still enjoy the challenge of breeding something special, and do feel responsible for keeping or finding loving homes for babies that are unsaleable due to kinks, so I have ended up adding a very small number of snakes in the last year. Just breeding two or three clutches a season, I never feel overwhelmed either with babies to feed or with babies to sell. And I am fully prepared to keep babies here as long as it takes to find new homes for them without dumping them. I _know_ how special they are, how valuable their genes are, how pampered and well-raised they are, and the market recognizes that. I like to think of them as "boutique" hatchlings, rather than mass-market. And as they mature, each is recognized as an individual, and if they end up staying until they are yearlings, well, then, I've just had so much more enjoyable time to spend with them!

I think I feel the same. I have 50 snakes. 12 of those are not technically mine, but are here on long or short term loan. I have one female out on a breeding loan. I managed to part with one adult in the last year, and only because she was going to someone very trusted and special! I brought in three 2011's, each with a specific project to fit into. I kept two of my 2011 hatchlings, Krinkle the kinked baby and the GBR stripe, Jormungandr. In addition to the 12 "not mine," I have one yearling sold, awaiting final payment, and one holdback who I am now comfortable selling. So that's 37 snakes of my own. Not a bad number.

I bred six clutches this year. Of those, two are all holdbacks which will be going off to someone else when they are established. Two more clutches are co-bred with loaner snakes, so will be split. Only two clutches are entirely mine. I don't anticipate having any keepers this season unless I am graced with another plasma stripe!

Next season, though, my Tessera projects will be ready to breed.

Conclusion: I feel content with the number I have, and not overwhelmed.

 

[Lyion]

Let's reexamine how I feel nearly a year later...




I think I feel the same. I have 50 snakes. 12 of those are not technically mine, but are here on long or short term loan. I have one female out on a breeding loan. I managed to part with one adult in the last year, and only because she was going to someone very trusted and special! I brought in three 2011's, each with a specific project to fit into. I kept two of my 2011 hatchlings, Krinkle the kinked baby and the GBR stripe, Jormungandr. In addition to the 12 "not mine," I have one yearling sold, awaiting final payment, and one holdback who I am now comfortable selling. So that's 37 snakes of my own. Not a bad number.

I bred six clutches this year. Of those, two are all holdbacks which will be going off to someone else when they are established. Two more clutches are co-bred with loaner snakes, so will be split. Only two clutches are entirely mine. I don't anticipate having any keepers this season unless I am graced with another plasma stripe!

Next season, though, my Tessera projects will be ready to breed.

Conclusion: I feel content with the number I have, and not overwhelmed.

That's good. I think I'll always have less than 30, and probably around 10 keepers. As soon as I leave collage, I plan to have

Xia, my amel

A hognose

A bloodred with as many hets as possible

A sandboa

A BCI

A children's python



I think I would be content with that. For some reason, Ball pythons were never a big intrest for me.

 

[Nanci]

I _did_ find a snake I absolutely was dying to have, last year. A dilute anery stripe. When Walter slashed the price on her, it was all over for me. I bought her while I was at my Goddaughter's baptism!! And gave her as a gift to Carol (Who has two males, motley, but no female).

 

[Michael823]

I'm not a big fan of capturing from the wild. My main claim towards why to breed snakes is that breeding in captivation is preservation. To me, its the same thing as going outside and grabbing a coyote pup rather than buying a dog.

Well, I agree that it sustains wild populations much better to buy CB (on top of many other positives). But I don't believe that people who keep snakes are in any way 'preserving' the species (if that's what you mean).

It's taken millions/billions of years for them to evolve and adapt, and humanity continues to do them no favors by making captivity their 'only hope'. If I get burnt out from keeping snakes, it's mostly because of the direction I see other keepers (and the hobby) going, and the common disregard to separate a healthy desire to keep snakes as pets, and a capitalistic desire to produce, produce, produce, while giving little or no thought to the full lives of those animals before they breed them. And if it's a wild caught animal, I am under the belief that they should remain wild. Too many alternatives are out there for the responsible keeper to have CB options, and taking animals out of the wild (especially adults) is unquestionably a detriment to the earth.

Honestly, it's why I really can't even blame the proposed bills aimed at regulating the reptile trade. If people are unable to make decisions that will help support our only earth, then decisions (even broad, partially unfair ones) should be expected to be made for them (right or wrong). The world is only getting smaller, and for wild animals, the 'wild' is almost non-existent. To imagine that billions of years of creation on this earth is being flushed down the drain as we speak is so tragic to me (but that's a MUCH larger problem than can be singled out by just 'keepers'). However, as supposed 'lovers of snakes', I think that many people only value them as 'theirs', not for the value of the snakes lives themselves, and the important role that they have contributed to in creating the earth/life that we have now.

My grandfather is a naturalist, and he just refers to the 'snake community' as "snake heads". He's respectful and tolerant of my keeping snakes, but he's asked to do many talks, and it's some of this group (of course not all), who really upset him the most. He's dedicated a lifetime of research and fieldwork trying to conserve what little pockets of habitat he can, and to no avail (seemingly). He's had his most private spots for turtle habitation become playgrounds for kids with nets, dogs, and habitat destroying vehicles. And the older I get the more I notice these problems for myself (especially within some of this community).

 

[screamindemon17]

I believe if we didnt have captured sime wild babies or even adults many more animals would have become extinct look at the falcon, cali condor , in many states the grey and timber wolves. Taking from the wild is a way to preserve as long as they have an intention of repopulating an area that has been devastated. As a kid living in washington i found many young spotted owls either dead or injured di tologging and there is supposedly 10,000 left in the wild. They reintroduce many of the young owls i have picked up and brought to a wildlife center or grew them my self and releasedback into the wild. People doing it to make money off of it are the ones you gotta watch they find a one of a kind breed never seen and take it in as there own and sale it for houndreds ,thousands or millions and the hole reason the animal is that way is because its evolved to that color shape or way to survive its new suroundings.. its fine to collect that animal as long as there is going to be a release of that animal and or some of its young to produce offspring in the wild were they were origanally ment ti be

 

[Michael823]

Right, there are absolutely conservation efforts to promote wildlife. And some of that includes taking some species out of the wild, (basically) to put more in. But if this makes up any substantial portion of the reptile keeping community, I would like to see it.

 

[Lyion]

I do agree on most points with Michael.

 

[kathylove]

People will protect what they know about - and care about.

I believe that the success in the big push many years ago for changing the way tuna is caught (dolphin safe) is because it was a grass roots effort by LOTS of consumers who had grown up watching Flipper, and going to Sea World type dolphin shows, and watching movies with dolphins in them. AR groups would love to ban use of dolphins for those educational and entertainment purposes. But if the "tuna wars" had depended only on those who cared about dolphins because they read about them, or had seen them in the wild, the result might have been far different than what I remember when consumers starting rejecting the non dolphin safe tuna.

When I was a teen and 20 something, most average people agreed with "the only good snake is a dead snake". Many people still feel that way. But I believe that protecting snakes (or at least not trying to kill every snake one sees) is much more mainstream now (in part) BECAUSE of the numbers of average citizens who caught or bought a baby corn or other pet snake, and found out how interesting and non-threatening it really was. Even if they kept only one or two in their youth, that perspective might be passed on to their own children when the time is right.

So, while breeding pretty corn morphs (or balls, boas, etc) is not a DIRECT conservation effort, it not only serves to take collecting pressure off of wild snakes, but ALSO contributes towards enlightening casual pet keepers who might otherwise be hostile to the idea of sharing their property with local wild snakes.

I have to put in my 2 cents about unfair laws being necessary because we can't totally police all of the participants in the herp community. If 100% ethical compliance is needed for a hobby or industry to legally exist, then I can't really think of a single human endeavor that should be legal. I have been involved in a number of hobbies, and am a consumer of many products from many different industries. I can't really think of ONE that is without a blemish. And most are far worse than ours. Not that it is an excuse to avoid improvement in our own sphere of influence! Just that it is also not an excuse to outlaw us because of some outlaws!

Laws that are fair and actually ACCOMPLISH the stated goal are needed in all industries. Laws that are "feel good" political statements based on media hysteria and are only introduced to scare a terrified public into voting for politicians who push them are not laws that I can have any respect for. Unfortunately, a lot of exotic animal laws fall into exactly that category these days. And they are the cause of my increasing apathy and burnout - not the actual reptile community itself. While the community definitely can use improvement, the bad economy has weeded out a lot of "bad apples" who were only here for money, and couldn't survive financially. But the bad apples in government and the AR groups seem more numerous than ever. IMHO, of course!!