Considering my first "hot."

[Hallie]

If you can't keep a snake the way it is, than you shouldn't be keeping the snake at all.

Not that I'm going to get into it too much, but there have been no studies done on the long term effects of a venomous snake deprived of venom in relation to the health of the snake. There is strong edvidence to support venom plays a key role in the digestive process and there-fore this type of ill concieved and idiotic practice may actually cause shorter life-spans and/or other health issues to the snake.

~B~

I completely and totally agree. The only time I think this procedure should even be considered is when the animal in question is going to be used for educational purposes and there is a risk of others being bitten. If a snake is going to be kept in a private collection, I don't feel that they should be altered in any way. If you can't handle it, don't get it. (Which is why I don't have any at the moment, I know I'm not ready yet.)

 

[gimpsnakelvr]

:rofl: Sounds like a name I'd use (notice...I have 3 animals with Star Wars names...I'm a giant nerd....)!!

If I were to get a hot, I'd want an eyelash viper or a Canebrake rattler (top 2 picks). Or possibly a sedge viper or a Western diamondback (either albino or patternless). But I'm no where near ready to be taking care of hots, I've got years before going down that road (if ever...).

just come for a visit here and walk through the south mountain preserve, superstition mountains, or camelback mt. western diamondbacks all over there

 

[Chip]

I'm always hesitant to get involved in these threads because you just don't know what people are and are not capable of, and you hate giving advise in situations such as that...LOL But since it seems like you have some experience in the matter I'll offer my thoughts.

I can see your draw to these small and beautiful "pseudo cobras" Aspidelaps lubricus lubricus especially is one of the more beautiful ssp. As with any venomous snake you should treat it as though your life depended on it. Which in all honesty it probably will, the toxic properties of this snake are just as potent and medically significant as other venomous snakes....it's only saving grace being the size of the snake, so there is much less venom present. Even so deaths from this species have been reported so it should not be taken lightly.

I wouldn't keep anything without first thoroughly researching it, hopefully working with someone else's animals until I felt comfortable, and getting my hands on 10+ vials of anti-serum (which I don't know if is even available for this species). Getting bitten is simply not an option! I wouldn't handle the snake or be extracting venom, so any "accident" would have to come from routine maintenance, which shouldn't happen with extreme diligence (and yes, the size of this species helps immensely!)

Did you ever consider a venomoid? I would love a hot (albino monacle or albino dimondback) but with children in the house I wouldn't dare. Plus I have children always playing in the neighborhood and if it ever escaped and bit one I couldn't live with it. I was looking on venomoidinc.com and they have some nice animals at pretty reasonable prices, considering a vet had to perform the surgury. They provided a rattlesnake for the discovery show "I was bitten" so they could do the reenactment without someone getting envenomated.

I am familiar with the company, but am not considering a venomoid. There's no such thing as an unloaded gun with snakes. Even a dry bite from a venomoid gaboon viper almost cost a guy his leg a couple of years ago after systemic infection set in. My interest in this species is about the animal, not the relative liklihood of surviving a bite. I'm not as anti-venomoid as some folks, but after seeing Jim Harrison milk three and get venom out of two, I wouldn't feel any more comfortable with one. And as for escapes, that can not be a possibility! Caging and routine maintenance has to have a super strict protocol.

Boo Hiss.....Venomoid is worse than cursing....

Every snake you see on Letterman or Leno is a venomoid, make no mistake! I see the reason for the practice in a very few cases, but for the average keeper, if you can't take care of the unaltered animal, you have no business getting one.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Jeff Mohr?? Who BTW had the most adorable cobra hatchlings in the history of the universe this year?

That's it! Thank you Nanci! The name was right on the tip of my tongue!

 

[danny819]

I didn't want to touch a nerve and I do respect all positions on the venomoid debate. I have read that if the surgury is done incorrectly the glands can regenerate and that is why keepers should let it strike a live rodent monthly to see if it dies. Also I saw a lot of pics of butchered snakes where surguries were done by non vets at home and thats why I like venomoidinc since they use a vet and implants to replace the glands so theres no shrunken head where the glands were. I did some research a while back and the possible problems caused by the lack of venom to aid in digestion is what kept me from purchasing one.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Hmmmmm... maybe for my biology studies, I can do some sort of thesis on the effects of venomoid snakes...
(I just REALLY want to have an excuse to get a cobra... LOL)

 

[Chip]

I know there have been some long term captives being kept on f/t rodents with no known ill effects. I suppose the thought is that the freezing process breaks down cell walls to aid digestion in a similar manner to a bite. My concern about Venomoid Inc's method is the gland they insert. If you do a necropsy on a baby pit viper and an adult, you'll see a BIG difference in the size of that gland. An implant can not grow with the animal. I would expect a sunken area on the adult snake with a BB sized venom gland, but that may not be the case.
In my admittedly very limited experience with Naja cobras, they are among the hots I'd least want to keep. They basically look like a colubrid unless they hood, and seem to have a real knack for climbing a hook. I really don't know how you could learn to work with that animal without a mentor and a hands-on (euphemistically) program. I spoke with Clay Davenport about this matter earlier today, his advice was: "If you get an exotic, get the anti-serum first!" Hours are precious after an envenomation.

 

[snakewispera snr]

I couldn't help notice the 10+ vials of anti-venom you mentioned.... How much would they cost as a matter of interest?

 

[Chip]

Depends on the species, there's a HUGE range. West African was around $10 a vial a few months ago. Cro_fab (for US venomous vipers) is usually $100+. Oddly, some exotics are the least expensive. Cro-fab is all manufactured from sheep (as opposed to equine) these days, to lessen allergic reactions. All the sheep used in the production are in New Zealand, so the venom is shipped there, injected, anti-serum created, then aired back to the 'States. A lot of hands are in the production. Working with rattlers, I'd just not buy it; personally. I'd need medical attention either way unless I got a dry bite, so would just say I was hit by a timber rattler while working in the yard. Myself nor the hobby need the bad publicity, and the anti-serum has a shelf life of a little over a year.

I realize the above post isn't the most responsible advice. This is only what I would do if I owned a rattlesnake! An exotic, forget about it; you buy the anti-serum. You'll probably never need it. But in case of a bite, in all likelihood, you'll have all ten vials in your system before the medical staff can get more for you. And don't let 'em give you a faciatomy.

 

[Old_School]

If I was going to get a hot, I'd want a big fatty slug of a Gaboon viper. I would name her Jabba.

Oh Yes, a big ol gaboon viper for sure!!!!

 

[Carinata]

I am 15 right, I have a rear fanged and take all the precautions. locked cage loctae before entering. I think I could deal with a Copperhead or small rattler. But a cobra is never a good idea for a first hot

 

[Carinata]

venomoiding is a stupid and inhummane practice. the venom of hots is desighned to digest prey without venom inproper digestion occurs. A hot keeper i know well got a venomoid from a keeper who could no longer care for it. He said the snake was so lifeless he said it just ate and slept thats it.

 

[Chip]

Please look up logical fallacies.

 

[Hypancistrus]

I am 15 right, I have a rear fanged and take all the precautions. locked cage loctae before entering. I think I could deal with a Copperhead or small rattler. But a cobra is never a good idea for a first hot

Not being an EXPERT by any chance, I am thinking that owning a truly venomous, front fanged snake is a heck of a lot different than owning a rear fanged snake... case in point, most localities don't even recognize rear fanged as BEING venomous. Venomous creatures are illegal in Maryland, but you can buy hognose snakes in any pet store. It's like comparing apples to oranges... the only people who are impressed by a person saying they own a rear-fanged venomous snake are people who don't own snakes.

 

[kathylove]

We used to keep and breed both A. lubricus and A. scutatus back in the '80s and early '90s, along with several species of small, colorful tree vipers from Africa, Asia, and S. America. I really liked all of them a lot, and only got rid of them because we started Glades Herp, and had to start depending on employees to care for our breeding colony instead of doing it ourselves.

Both species were really easy to keep and breed, and didn't take much room. The lubricus produced more babies than scutatus, so we got more experience with those. They were mainly Bill's project, so it is difficult to remember all of the details after so long. He doesn't usually post here, but I am sure he would be willing to discuss his experience with them if you give him a call sometime.

I do miss all of our small and colorful hots at times. I probably miss the eyelash vipers more than any of the others. But all of the species we kept were beautiful, easy to keep and breed (although babies were sometimes a real pain to get started), and didn't take much room. If any of these species were non-venomous, they would be EXTREMELY popular, in my opinion.

I can't tell you much about the venom. But if you decide you want to work with them, I think you will find them pretty easy to keep, and a lot of fun.

 

[Carinata]

I will not consider hots until after college. But I do have a rear fanged hot. I don't want to start another argument so Im gonna say that I am not completly ready but if I was forced I may be able to work with super surper vision

 

[The Snake Guru]

But I do have a rear fanged hot.

And what Exactly is this "rear fanged hot"?
I'm just curious.

~B~

 

[Nanci]

He has a black-templed cat snake.

 

[The Snake Guru]

Not to hi-jack or anything but does anyone know the scientific denomination of those? I can't say I've heard of them before...at least not the common name, are they in the family Boiga? Or relation?

~B~

 

[Hallie]

Not to hi-jack or anything but does anyone know the scientific denomination of those? I can't say I've heard of them before...at least not the common name, are they in the family Boiga? Or relation?

~B~

They are Crotaphopeltis hotamboeia, I believe.