Controversial Topic #3: Replies to "Newbs"

[Mrs InsaneOne]

I usually try to avoid posting in the little 'cat fights' that I find while scrolling through the forums. I read them, laugh, snort, and move on without leaving my sarcastic remarks behind.

But there are times when I must speak out and now is one of them.

It's been said many times already, but I have to repeat everyone else because I can't repeat myself if I haven't actually said something at least once before.

Not every Newbie gets attacked and not every questioned posted by a Newbie gets flames posted. I've been lurking around these boards for well over a year (Yeah, my new identity fools peeps into thinking I'm new, but I'm not. Just my very own personal ID is new! ) and I've never been flamed or been CAPPED at in a post, even in my newbie disguise.

But then, I do my best to be mature about the questions I ask and I don't expect everything to be handed to me. My experiences with other members on this forum have all been positive and I've learned more then I ever could have from a book or caresheets on the net. The main thing though, is I've actually listened to the advice I was given and followed that advice as closely as possible.

The few times I've run acrossed Newbie's getting flamed and yelled at, was when the Newbie was being rude/hateful and disrepectful towards the person who was trying to help them. Very trollish behavior, or just sheer stupidity. It happens.. But that doesn't mean blanket statements should be made about older members jumping all over newbies for no reason should be made or even implied.

Basic manners make a difference and yes that does include typing sentences that are understandable. I can't nit-pick peoples grammer, because grammer is something I am horrible with. But I make the effort to see that what I post can be understood by most anyone else who reads it.

I'd say that common sense is needed 9 times out of 10, but well, common sense isn't too common in this day and age. A little bit of respect for those who have been 'in the business' wouldn't be remiss either. Not makes me growl at the computer quicker then someone who ignores very good advice offered by multiple people just because it's not the response they wanted to get. Why ask if you are not willing to listen?

Now, the other side that was mentioned was the 'oldtimers' were ignoring or not answering questions posted by the newbies. I am in a way guilty of that, but only after trying very hard to help someone. I passed on the advice that I was given by other older members and the person I gave it to was thrilled so much they PM'd me for 5 days straight asking the SAME question, just using different words and wordings. :uzi:

I'm sure that's happened to others here too. That person, the one PMing me, then went on to post a thread about the SAME thing. Why would I want to go through that more then once? If someone asks me a question, I will do my best to answer it and pass on what I know and what I have been told, but I don't want to waste my time fighting a losing battle. Because at that point it turns into this: :argue:

I think, and this is JMO, that if a newbie was truly concerned and interested in learning more about this hobby - they would put in the effort to do the research, ask for advice when something isn't clear, LISTEN to the advice that is given by those with experience, and be willing to handle the trace amounts of concrit that people sometimes hand out.

There really is no need to just because you have been told by a breeder of 20+ years that your little corn isn't eating because you are offering it crickets when it wants nice plump mice. Just because some joe schmoe at the local PetCo told you it would prefer bugs to fresh meat. Holding fast to something that is NOT working, isn't going to work. You've already proved that by asking why it wasn't working in the first place.

But again, that is just common sense and as I stated earlier common sense isn't too common in this day and age.. Sad isn't it?

Jenn (I may be part of the peanut gallery, but hey, better the gallery than the peanut butter jar.)

 

[Cegninedorf]

just being nosy...

As an honest-to-goodness "newbie," I just wanted to know what all the "elders" were doing, so I started to read this thread...and wow. Being as how I'm still on the very outside of things as far as this forum is concerned, I'm duly impressed with this entire forum's conscientiousness & earnestness. I think that this forum is doing a wonderful job, and I'm bowled over by the continual emphasis on maintaining proper spelling/grammar, as well as practicing good etiquette, *along with* providing accurate information. I could go on & on about how much that means to me, not only as a teacher by profession, but also as a regular educated person, because those simple things are missing in so much of the rest of the Internet & other forms of communication now. It was evident simply via the presentation -- I didn't need to read any comments to be aware of that. I didn't go to school all of those years (18 years & counting...) & invest of myself to simply resort to crap spelling and not knowing how to use a period or how to string words together in a sensible fashion. I appreciate that a sense of decorum is maintained.

And, I'll admit: I did a lot of reading (yes, books & the Internet & care sheets...) & talking with herpetoloculturists/herpetologists, and I even joined my local herp society, all before getting my snake...and then the day I got him/her, I was so excited & so afraid that I'd do something wrong that everything I read flew right out the window. Yes, I'll be 30 in Sept, but I can't help but marvel at the little wonder slithering about in my hands that I'm in complete awe. I've never owned or cared for a snake before, nor have I known anyone that has, and to own one...to me, that is amazing. For the vast majority of you, it's now commonplace...and perhaps a good point was made when it needs to be remembered what it was like to have your first snake all to your very own. Or, perhaps, to see that first pippy that you worked so hard to have survive. The day I got my snake, I wanted some kind of confirmation that I was doing all of the right things, so I did more research on the internet & I knew that I wanted to be in a forum for human feedback. I sought out a few reptile forums, but this one provided the most amount of consistent, timely information in an approachable context.

There is tons of valuable information there, don't get me wrong, but I was thrilled to find this forum. There is something incredibly wonderful & supportive about this forum, and I really think that while it's healthy to take a step back & give oneself a good analysis, it's also to recognize the positive and not dwell on the negative.

The FAQs are a great resource, but wow -- it's a lot to take in right away. I have done plenty of my own searches, and occasionally it's not for lack of trying, but sometimes I honestly can't find what I'm looking for because of vague titles of threads or I'm not sure how to word my search (for example, when I tried to find out about what the male:female ratio/numbering system meant, i.e., 0.1 amel...), therefore I asked. I figured that it was a repeat question, but I found nothing in the FAQs and my searches were fruitless. Perhaps I'm an idiot because I couldn't find it & had to resort to asking, but I asked because I got frustrated. The end. However, in responding to me, I got short, sweet responses & no backlash. I was appreciative because I know what it is like to repeat myself a thousand times; I work with 7 year olds, of course I know what it's like. :crazy02: So, I try to show my thanks by dishing out the "rep power"* when someone has taken their time with me.

(*Although, I tried to search that, as well, to understand what it was about...and I found nothing, so I gambled & tried to figure it out on my own.)

Perhaps a PM could be automatically sent to every new member with a welcome & links to all of the important areas to look at: the different FAQ sections, the rules, along with a *gentle* reminder on specificity when titling threads & spelling/grammar are like honey to flies.

However, goodness: give yourselves some credit! I didn't really see anything controversial about this thread at all, but I did read a lot of bashing & negativity, which is unfortunate. This is a wonderful forum, so keep it wonderful.

 

[MegF.]

Actually, I have no problem with someone asking a question again as long as they indicate that they made some effort to find the answer on their own. If you just put down, "I attempted to find this on search but could not so I'm asking...." or that you had done research elsewhere and couldn't find the answer, then I'm all for answering the question. All I ask for is a bit of looking around first. Oh, and that some people use the available spell check!

 

[delhalew]

I am newb hear me roar

I am new as of today, but have lurked for about a weak. I do have experience with these types of forums. That said, this is how I feel.

Trolls and people who cannot take advice should be flamed to death. Everyone should take turns presenting evidence as to why said person is an ass.

Veterans who are tired of the same questions should ignore those Q's and refrain from dropping rude comments for fun(something I have seen very little of on this forum, by the way)

On the other hand, there is little more anoying than deciding to answer a "what temp" Q, and getting lip from a noob. On a good day you back away slowly, instead of saying $@#&^ you newb! or the like.

I am glad I found this site. Great info, great attitudes, great hobby.

PS: I like that most here seem to grasp the english language and there is a welcome abscense of 1337speak, which gives me a headache.

 

[Bobo's Mama]

As an honest-to-goodness "newbie," I just wanted to know what all the "elders" were doing, so I started to read this thread...and wow. Being as how I'm still on the very outside of things as far as this forum is concerned, I'm duly impressed with this entire forum's conscientiousness & earnestness. I think that this forum is doing a wonderful job, and I'm bowled over by the continual emphasis on maintaining proper spelling/grammar, as well as practicing good etiquette, *along with* providing accurate information. I could go on & on about how much that means to me, not only as a teacher by profession, but also as a regular educated person, because those simple things are missing in so much of the rest of the Internet & other forms of communication now. It was evident simply via the presentation -- I didn't need to read any comments to be aware of that. I didn't go to school all of those years (18 years & counting...) & invest of myself to simply resort to crap spelling and not knowing how to use a period or how to string words together in a sensible fashion. I appreciate that a sense of decorum is maintained.

And, I'll admit: I did a lot of reading (yes, books & the Internet & care sheets...) & talking with herpetoloculturists/herpetologists, and I even joined my local herp society, all before getting my snake...and then the day I got him/her, I was so excited & so afraid that I'd do something wrong that everything I read flew right out the window. Yes, I'll be 30 in Sept, but I can't help but marvel at the little wonder slithering about in my hands that I'm in complete awe. I've never owned or cared for a snake before, nor have I known anyone that has, and to own one...to me, that is amazing. For the vast majority of you, it's now commonplace...and perhaps a good point was made when it needs to be remembered what it was like to have your first snake all to your very own. Or, perhaps, to see that first pippy that you worked so hard to have survive. The day I got my snake, I wanted some kind of confirmation that I was doing all of the right things, so I did more research on the internet & I knew that I wanted to be in a forum for human feedback. I sought out a few reptile forums, but this one provided the most amount of consistent, timely information in an approachable context.

There is tons of valuable information there, don't get me wrong, but I was thrilled to find this forum. There is something incredibly wonderful & supportive about this forum, and I really think that while it's healthy to take a step back & give oneself a good analysis, it's also to recognize the positive and not dwell on the negative.

The FAQs are a great resource, but wow -- it's a lot to take in right away. I have done plenty of my own searches, and occasionally it's not for lack of trying, but sometimes I honestly can't find what I'm looking for because of vague titles of threads or I'm not sure how to word my search (for example, when I tried to find out about what the male:female ratio/numbering system meant, i.e., 0.1 amel...), therefore I asked. I figured that it was a repeat question, but I found nothing in the FAQs and my searches were fruitless. Perhaps I'm an idiot because I couldn't find it & had to resort to asking, but I asked because I got frustrated. The end. However, in responding to me, I got short, sweet responses & no backlash. I was appreciative because I know what it is like to repeat myself a thousand times; I work with 7 year olds, of course I know what it's like. :crazy02: So, I try to show my thanks by dishing out the "rep power"* when someone has taken their time with me.

(*Although, I tried to search that, as well, to understand what it was about...and I found nothing, so I gambled & tried to figure it out on my own.)

Perhaps a PM could be automatically sent to every new member with a welcome & links to all of the important areas to look at: the different FAQ sections, the rules, along with a *gentle* reminder on specificity when titling threads & spelling/grammar are like honey to flies.

However, goodness: give yourselves some credit! I didn't really see anything controversial about this thread at all, but I did read a lot of bashing & negativity, which is unfortunate. This is a wonderful forum, so keep it wonderful.

I said it once, and I'll say it again. YOU are an awesome "newbie". Maybe its your age and maturity. All I know is that you are a great addition to our cornsnake family! Welcome and enjoy!

 

[shallow.sleeper]

although I've read in the earlier parts of this thread within the first 6 pages of posts something similar to what I'm about to say, I'm just too lazy to go back and cut and paste it here. though you don't know me at all (new to the forum), new to computers (never had a need), uneducated (never completed university), all in all, I'm a nub. yes I'm too lazy to use caps too. so what. did some of you even think that some people are not as fortunate as you to have a decent education and or wealthy enough to even afford a computer. i had to learn all this on my own (still figuring it out). yes i agree that new members to the forums shouldn't post something that has no relevance to the original post. they should have more common courtesy. in general i agree to most of what you've said, but what if.... :shrugs:
1)the person has a lower level of education which means he/she has a hard time reading or typing. it could take forever to go through something as long as this post (did you ever think for you people who took typing class in school that this is a skill that aids you?)
2)has no money up to this point to even own a computer (computer illiterate)
3)hey even when some of you talk about proper grammar and spelling, I've noticed a few mistakes in your spelling and grammar (so don't point your finger at someone whom you think is "STUPID")
if you don't like the fact i only use lower case only, too bad cause i like to. at least i use spell check.
I've always been the underdog since I'm (uneducated). so for all you nub bashing freaks on the forum, what if... :shrugs:
hey you guys wanted a controversy right? sorry haven't smoked in a few days. must be catchin up with me now. :wavey:

 

[MegF.]

Well for all that you say you're uneducated, you managed to spell everything correctly. If you have no computer at all, this is a moot point since you wouldn't be here anyway reading this. The FAQ's section is not that long to read, certainly not as long as this thread has turned out to be. If nothing else, most of us (unless they are too young to have completed it) had at least a H.S. education unless you dropped out which was your choice. Public school is free. I got my education there and then worked and paid my way thru college so if you are completely uneducated (which your spelling and grammar don't point to) it was your choice. As for not spelling things correctly, I don't think anyone objects to the occasional mis-spelled word in a sentence. It's when the whole thread is nearly incomprehensible due to spelling errors. I've had to read some of these threads three or four times just to try to figure out what the question was. That's what we complain about. Anyway, the thread was not to newb bash. It was to complain about the number of people who don't want to find out anything before they get a snake and then want people to spoon feed them answers. If you can't take the time to learn something about the animal you're caring for, you probably won't take the time to care for it properly at all.

 

[Roy Munson]

if you don't like the fact i only use lower case only, too bad cause i like to.

That's ok. No one here is dictating how you have to write. Like many others, I only advise proper grammar, usage, and syntax so that the poster may be taken seriously. I found your no-caps post to be very difficult to read. I'm not going to put too much work into trying to read the written opinions of those who refuse to communicate effectively. You know why? 'Cause I don't like to. :wavey:

 

[Eremita]

Well, since this thread has come alive again, and even self-professed newbies who have posted here often have several hundred posts (you know who you are, and you fail the "newbie" requirements), I can offer some newbie perspective (look! I've been on less than a month!), albeit perhaps tainted by whatever characteristics make me a less-than-typical newbie.

One of those characteristics, I fear, is that I have only ever started one thread. For that thread, I did a search beforehand that did not enlighten me on the topic, but it did not occur to me to mention this since I thought 1) people could presume that I had done a search (unfortunately not the case, but I was naive back then), and 2) no one would tell me to do a search since there was no such topic before (although I do allow the possibility that this is not the case). Since then I have only responded to other posts or PM'd folks. No one bashed me for my thread, and the PM responses from long-time members were either very nice (thanks Tonya!) or what I should have expected (thanks Joe :duck: ).

My impression is that old-timers do not respond to newbies in any particular fashion, other than the "welcome"s they may offer in the "new members" section. This is actually subtly revealed through most of the previous posts. What determines any variation in response towards a post is a combination of the actual text of the message - spelling, grammar, politeness - and the inferences that one can draw from them regarding the diligence of the poster towards obtaining information before posting. This is generally true of newer members as well. People do not seem to look at the post count or the join date to drive the content of their replies.

Now, most of the glaring violations of decent composition or justification for a new thread come from newbies, and it seems that the lion's share of discussion has involved best ways to deal with such violators. But, please consider that this forum is not only composed of first timers and old timers. There are actually a lot of people who are transitioning from newbies to established members as the months go on; and either by attrition or self-education, these people are not creating these violations.

I think then that the only reason that established folks like our thread-starter would be concerned about the treatment of newbies should be if those newer folks who appear to be staying are not the sort that lead to a vibrant and healthy forum. And that does not appear to be the case. Folks who are staying on are the same quality if not nearly the same level of experience as the old timers, in my estimation at least. Established members who make such violations like Vinman are very few and far between, and I would like to add that Elle, whatever some folks may believe, has helped a lot of folks out with good answers to a very wide range of questions and I'm glad she's here.

-Sean

 

[bill38112]

I am a newbie to this forum. However, I've kept and bred a variety of pets. And I have served on the boards of a number of pet related organizations. Before I retired I was a management consultant. My resume includes studies on how to run pet related organizations better. I offer this, not so much to establish credibility, but to let you know where I'm coming from.

Basically, all hobbies depend on recruiting newbies. As much as we need to treasure and revere those people who are the foundation of our hobby, they are not the lifeblood of the fancy. It is that person that stumbles across this forum or who visits his/her first expo and wants to buy one of your first hatchlings. It is that person who wants to breed their first clutch and who is willing to pay a premium for the breeders with the right pedigree bred by the old timer with the right rep. All of you who are seriously into advancing this hobby need an outlet for the snakes you don't want to keep and that outlet is the newbie.

Now the average newbie will only stay with it for a about five years, maybe less, but if they had pleasant experiences while involved in the fancy, they will take our side against the PETA nuts and others that don't share our enthusiasm for the hobby.

Finally, do you know why I decided that keeping cons was a fun way to pass my retirement? I liked the corn people way more than I did the snooty dog show people.

 

[kimbyra]

Finally, do you know why I decided that keeping cons was a fun way to pass my retirement? I liked the corn people way more than I did the snooty dog show people.

Funny! :cheers:

 

[Hurley]

I liked the corn people way more than I did the snooty dog show people.

Coming from a dog show person, I don't care who you are, that's funny right thar. :grin01:

 

[Emanon]

something for the more seasoned breeders is todays newbie... tomorrows customer. Just a thought.

 

[Chris Olson]

Agreed, Brent. It's like the Taoist saying (and I paraphrase): "He who knows, stays silent; he who does not know, opens his mouth."

Or something.


regards,
jazz

Put another way; "People who know the least, say it the loudest."

Chris

 

[rushrulz]

Well, I'm a newbie, and I don't think I've had any problems here as far as replies. When I thought about (finally) getting a snake, I searched the web and repeatedly came up against "corn snakes are the best starter snakes," and as they also looked nice, I was fine with that. I read up on their care online, various places, and I got Kathy's book. I also have a few other books on snakes.

As was said earlier, though, all that stuff you've read goes out the window when you've got this tiny little squirmy thing in front of you. Reading the sentences is one thing. Doing it is another.

At some level, I have trouble thinking of Severus as the same as other snakes spoken of on the board. For example, for the life of me, I can't imagine that Severus would be ready to shed for a while yet. However, part of my brain tells me that it's not about whether I think he's ready for a shed, it's him. And it doesn't matter if he's not eaten in a couple weeks, etc. Yet if I found him in blue tonight, I'd say, "What on earth are you going into shed for already?" as if somehow he should only do things when and where I think he should.

I've never had a pet snake before--only gerbils, cats, and fish. Feeding those creatures was a whole other ballgame than feeding Severus, as I can't just leave some Purina Snake Chow in a bowl for him (if only!). And he's cold-blooded, so I have to worry about his temperatures. So for someone like me, this is all very new and weird, and it'll probably take me a while to really settle into it, so you can expect lots more annoying questions from me. The only person I know in real life who's experienced with snakes is a former coworker who lives a couple states away.

But as for the point of discussion...people who post in kewl talk are pretty much doomed before they've begun, and I have little sympathy. You know, "my sake is DIEing!help!!!1!" and stuff. I mean, some people don't provide enough information for a diagnosis, and some people come here with very basic questions, and I kind of wonder about that...I'm surprised they found this place first, really, as a quick google will bring up lots of useful things, and this board will probably not be in the #1 spot.

 

[jaxom1957]

One thing I find lacking in many answers to questions from people new to the hobby is reasoning for the given answer. Telling someone, "Do it this way, not that way", while offering no explanation why one choice is preferable may be at least part of the reason the question gets asked again and again. I welcome all advice from those with greater experience, but I do not put it in to practice blindly. If you cannot give a sound, logical reason for a course of action, how much faith can anyone put in your advice?

I will include an example of not following expert advice because the logic did not fit: I recently received two 2005 corns, both said to be male by my petstore (not where the snakes originated). They have been housed together for the better part of a year. They follow each other around, sleep together, climb the branches together, burrow in the substrate together. They show every indication of being bonded one to another.

Every experienced breeder on the forum warns against housing corns together, but, in the majority of cases where a reason is cited, it is to prevent either cannibalism in hatchlings, fights over food, or unplanned breedings. "Adam" and "Steve" are well beyond hatchling size. I do not feed my snakes in their home tanks, but in separate plastic bins, one snake per bin. As both are males, unwanted offspring are not an issue.

Had I merely accepted the dire warnings about never housing corn snakes together, Adam and Steve would each be in their own tank, and, I truly believe, more stressed and less healthy. Until they reach sexual maturity and I must deal with mating aggression, I intend to let the boys enjoy each other's company. I consider it an informed decision, one that understands the risks and accepts the responsibility for my own choice.

Please, when answering a question, provide the person asking with some sense of the reasoning behind it. Allow them to make informed decisions for themselves. It may be too much to ask them to simply follow your advice rather than whatever they were told by someone else, someone who, in all likelihood, presented themselves as expert as well. If you provide the answer to "Why?", they might not have to keep asking.

 

[MegF.]

While cohabitating can prove to have exceptions, there's no telling if your snakes would be better off or not unless you seperated them. I have less worries about cannabilism and far more about disease spread or regurge issues etc. I think the chance of having disease spread far outweighs any other risk. There are plenty of people and postings on here about mis-sexed animals that end up breeding at too immature an age. There's always one or two popping up this time of year. If they truly aren't stressed together (and you really couldn't tell unless you saw them apart) what happens when breeding season comes and you do seperate them. Will they stress and pine for one another then? I doubt it. A snake's brain is not all that complex. I think the problem is that inexperienced people getting snakes for the first time might not recognize the often subtle signs of stress in their new snake. If you're an experienced keeper, and you think the animals would do fine together....go for it. Newbies would probably be better off sticking to the advised practice of seperately housing. I still am not convinced that just because your snakes crawl around the same places and go to the same hide that they aren't just going to the spot that both of them prefer for temperature, safety or whatever. A viv is not that large and chances are, if they are both out, they'll occupy the same space. I think you would be hard pressed to find two cornsnakes co-habitating in the wild except briefly at breeding time. Most species of colubrids that I've found out in the field are lone animals.

 

[jaxom1957]

If you're an experienced keeper, and you think the animals would do fine together....go for it

I am not very experienced. Had I received the two snakes from separate sources, I would have listened to the advice of my betters and not put them togethor. In this case, they had already been togethor with their previous owner for the better part of a year. Leaving them togethor, in my view, lessened the stress of going into a new home by at least keeping a familiar companion nearby.

I still am not convinced that just because your snakes crawl around the same places and go to the same hide that they aren't just going to the spot that both of them prefer for temperature, safety or whatever. A viv is not that large and chances are, if they are both out, they'll occupy the same space.

They have plenty of room to be apart, but they actively follow one another. I've sat watching them explore; it is more than putting up with the guy in the next seat because you want the one by the window; they really do seem bonded.

I am meeting with an experienced breeder tomorrow afternoon to have the three snakes whose gender is questionable probed. That includes Adam and Steve, along with my adult, Lucius (maybe Luscious, check with me after the probe!). If Adam and Steve turn out to be Steve and Edie, I will separate them this winter to avoid any unplanned clutches. I have no intention of risking their health foolishly, and I am getting as much information as I can, everyday.

 

[desertanimal]

Telling someone, "Do it this way, not that way", while offering no explanation why one choice is preferable may be at least part of the reason the question gets asked again and again.

In my experience of a few more months of watching newbies ask the same questions over and over again, I can conclude (with the data to back it up) that this is not the reason behind the repeated questions. The reason behind the repeated questions is that people do not bother to use the search function, where they, if they bother to look, will find lengthy and articulate discussions and debates in response to their very un-unique question. The reason that they get the response "do it this way, not that way," is BECAUSE the question has been asked a million times and this year's round of slightly older newbies has already tired of answering the question. You have the causalities turned 'round the wrong way.

I, myself, found this page after I had already been told that co-habitating my first two corns would be fine. I only had to wait a week before the first thread came up about co-habitation. I read it, and then I realized that the appropriate search-word was "co-habitation." And so I read. And I read. And I didn't rush off to immediately separate the two corns that were doing quite well together and were in no immediate danger of breeding if they were of opposite sexes, but I did make plans to separate them and did so once I decided on a sweaterbox that I liked. Though I had the same questions as every beginner, my first post was about the dangers of the overflow on the bathtub--a topic I was fairly certain wasn't breached on a regular basis by lazy people.

 

[desertanimal]

There have been several instances where I have been shocked by how rude experienced posters can be on this site when dealing with a newby. Coming onto a thread where someone is obviously distraught over the death of a snake and blasting them for a simple (and self-admittedly SILLY) question is just ridiculous. Likewise, responding to a newby post with "Use the search forum" is innapropriate as well.

I think in essence, being a newby here has solidified my feelings of how experienced people should treat newbies. We should treat them as we would like to be treated, and, barring rude behavior on their parts, should do the best that we can to help them out. If you are an experienced poster who is unwilling or unable to devote your time to newby questions without being rude or sarcastic towards them, then just don't bother to reply. In that respect, you truly are under NO OBLIGATION.

I have been out of commission for a few days, but I'm back to normal cognitive functioning today and am catching up. I would like to address a couple of these points. I, too, am sometimes taken aback by the unreasonable responses some newbies get, and have even reported what I felt were baiting and purely mean-spirited responses. But in general, even when I feel that responses have been inappropriately harsh, I realize that behind those responses are people. People who had a crappy day, people who are really tired of newbies taking bad care of their pets, etc. And just as newbies sometimes get cut a little slack for being lazy, I'll cut the oldies a little slack for being reactionary and cranky. Some of them are old, after all , and sometimes old people get cranky. Or sometimes PEOPLE get cranky. And when a new person gets ripped a new one and doesn't think he or she deserved it, a mature new person can respond with something akin to, "I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed the search function. I feel that your response was a little harsh, but thanks for the help that you offered and I'll see what I can find." I'd be willing to bet that such a response would elicit an apology from even the most cranky of old-timers. But this is not what we tend to see. So yes, sometimes these harsh responses probably "weed out" lazy, whiny cornsnake keepers who want to be coddled and loved and told what they want to hear. But why do we want those people here? I don't. I think the odd butt-chewing that happens here is good because it sets a certain standard of posting and behavior around here. If you can't handle someone misinterpreting you every now and again and telling you in public that they think you are ridiculous, this is not your crowd. People are going to keep their snakes, cornsnakes.com or no. But because some people here make fun of chat-speak, I don't have to read it. Because some people are harsh with the lazies that I ignore, they don't stick around. And yes, that's how I like it. AND that's EXACTLY how I want to be treated. I want to be able to make a mis-step, to overreact to someone when I'm having a bad day, to bloody stomp all over their toes. I want to be able to have a ball-busting, all-out, excoriating argument with someone here, and to know that at the end of the day, we both can shake hands, agree to disagree, and still be internet friends. We're not a bunch of pansies around here. And I, for one, don't want to be babied and coddled, because I don't want to waste time coddling anyone else. What we have here is a group of people with the guts to call 'em like they see 'em, and to stick to their guns. As a result, we don't always agree, and we aren't always even nice to each other, but we can all still play at the end of the day, because we are not the people who pick up our jacks and go home because a disagreement erupted and our feelings got hurt. We can all live through an a$$-chewing, no sweat. I'm comfy here. Others aren't. And that is A-OK. They are under no obligation to stay, and it's no sweat off my nose if they don't.