Controversial Topic #6: Making This Site Better

[Roy Munson]

What does need to be fixed is the abundance of people here who think this site is their own.
There are a growing number of people who jump on other posters as if they own this site and not Rich. They spend more time bitching about how everyone else is using the forum then they do discussing cornsnakes.
If a person is NOT a moderator they need to quit acting like they are.
If someone posts in the wrong category or maybe gets a little off topic you don't need ten arrogant responses telling them how bad they are and how stupid they must be to not know the rules of the forum.
A simple response by one person reminding them of their mistake is sufficient.
Sometimes even that isn't needed. As people get used to the site the figure these things out. It does not take two pages of condemnation.
And it sure doesn't take ten people telling each other how wonderfull they are for jumping in someone's case
This site has some of the most knowledgable people in the corn snake world but unfortunately it also has some of the rudest people I have ever seen in the corn snake world.
Of course a lot of people will be upset and just sure I am singling THEM out, a few will be right but this obviously isn't meant for everyone on this forum. Not even close. There are more good people then bad, no doubt about it. There are a lot of people here that are very helpful, polite, humorous, knowledgable and respectful. People you can tell you would enjoy spending time with any any setting.
Unfortunately it's just that the rudest are usually the "loudest" and most prolific posters...

Thanks for the reply, Jimmy. But is the part I bolded (and the rest, for that matter) really true? I'm not "challenging" you on this, it just seems that I've actually seen less of this kind of thing going on than in the past. I'm not talking about the recent clashes between members and the admin-- I'm talking about rudeness and "mini-modding" in general. I don't read as many of the general health and husbandry threads as I used to, so there's a good chance I'm missing something. If you get time, can you link me to some of the threads where this is (or was) going on? Thanks.

 

[diamondlil]

the set up and operation of the site are great. Slight changes here and there are easy to get used to.
So, I do not see a lot needed to actually improve the SITE itself. I will have to think about that as I type.
What does need to be fixed is the abundance of people here who think this site is their own.
There are a growing number of people who jump on other posters as if they own this site and not Rich. They spend more time bitching about how everyone else is using the forum then they do discussing cornsnakes.
If a person is NOT a moderator they need to quit acting like they are.
If someone posts in the wrong category or maybe gets a little off topic you don't need ten arrogant responses telling them how bad they are and how stupid they must be to not know the rules of the forum.
A simple response by one person reminding them of their mistake is sufficient.
Sometimes even that isn't needed. As people get used to the site the figure these things out. It does not take two pages of condemnation.
And it sure doesn't take ten people telling each other how wonderfull they are for jumping in someone's case
This site has some of the most knowledgable people in the corn snake world but unfortunately it also has some of the rudest people I have ever seen in the corn snake world.
Of course a lot of people will be upset and just sure I am singling THEM out, a few will be right but this obviously isn't meant for everyone on this forum. Not even close. There are more good people then bad, no doubt about it. There are a lot of people here that are very helpful, polite, humorous, knowledgable and respectful. People you can tell you would enjoy spending time with any any setting.
Unfortunately it's just that the rudest are usually the "loudest" and most prolific posters.
well, there, I said it........so let 'er rip, I'm ready to be blasted for my propensity to step on toes.

Oh yeah, why not a section for newbie question? instead of New Member Introduction how about New Member Introduction and Questions
It doesn't neccessarily need to be a FAQ section just a place where new members can ask "newbie" questions.
I know there are plenty of people who would be willing to help and for those who get annoyed at newbie, lazy or redundant questions, it's simple... don't go there, don't read the questions and don't blast the ones who ask them.

oh well here goes......submit reply

Nice post. I can't see anything much I disagree with there. The snidey tone taken with someone who posts in the wrong part of the forum sometimes is beyond belief. I can't say I've seen an increase in it, but there are some people who consistently act like forum security and really don't seem to have (or perhaps don't bother to use) any interpersonal skills in getting their message across

 

[TandJ]

Jimmy mentioned the following.

Unfortunately it's just that the rudest are usually the "loudest" and most prolific posters...

Essentially I have stopped posting as often as I did because I know the hyprocrispy is humongous.. Oh I could mention names of many here that have basicly stepped on their own well... But it would be pointless, because both sides are right as far as they are concerned... Essentially, I am greatly disappointed with most of the regular posters here, and I am not refering to a lot of ones who have splintered of eithier, because there are a lot of rude, loud mouthed people left here..

This site has some of the most knowledgable people in the corn snake world but unfortunately it also has some of the rudest people I have ever seen in the corn snake world.

There has been a lot of knowlege that has left here, because of a lot of the rude people.. Go figure..

They spend more time bitching about how everyone else is using the forum then they do discussing cornsnakes.

Yup and the bitching has not ceased yet because everyone just has to interject with thier feelings.. Stop beating the dead horse..


Sadly enough, I want nothing to do with most of the members mainly because of the hypocrisy.. Honestly, it makes me laugh seeing a lot of the people posting and pointing fingers because they can't see themselves in others eyes.. Before you go off ranting a raving about me, yea, I can be a loud mouth, and I will tell you what I think, for the most part but I try to be sincere even if I sound like prick..

Honestly, I am sick of both sides, and I really don't know who the troll is at this point???

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[TandJ]

Essentially, I am greatly disappointed with most of the regular posters here, and I am not refering to a lot of ones who have splintered of eithier, because there are a lot of rude, loud mouthed people left here..

Let me clarify this point, I don't think anyone is off the hook, no matter who it is, whether they have left or stayed, the point being is that a lot of people are being dumb about a lot of this..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Roy Munson]

Maybe I inadvertently asked for it by referencing the recent "strife" here in the O.P., but I honestly did not want this thread to be a continuation of the "Listen Up Chat..." thread, the "You Won" thread, or any other related thread. I'd hoped this thread could stay fairly positive. I won't get all "Alex Trebek" on anyone and make them phrase their complaints in the form of positives, but I would rather the thread focused on improvement opportunities.

 

[diamondlil]

Sorry about that, but I still stand by my first post that this is almost a totally great site ayway!

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

ok

then how about the New Member Introduction and Questions section.
Like I said earlier, They can ask away and only the people willing to help will ever have to see their questions.
Or just change it from Introduction to Questions.
Oh yeah....get rid of the rep point system OR make it given points only and not based on number of posts.
How many times have you seen people get angry because they feel someone is only posting to gain rep points.
I've seen the argument...."people will see a person has a high number of rep points so will be more secure in that poster's knowledge"
That doesn't fly when they are given for simple volume.

Dean, I sent you a message

 

[Nanci]

Speaking of rep points, I don't even really get what that is. I mean, I see that people have them, but when I first noticed it, I couldn't find an explanation, like in the FAQ, of what it was all about. I have sort of figured it out since then. I don't know of another forum that has anything ismilar, though- so it would be nice to have that all explained. I mean- I didn't even know you could go look at your own rep points till I found it by accident...

Nanci

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

...

Thanks for the reply, Jimmy. But is the part I bolded (and the rest, for that matter) really true? I'm not "challenging" you on this, it just seems that I've actually seen less of this kind of thing going on than in the past. I'm not talking about the recent clashes between members and the admin-- I'm talking about rudeness and "mini-modding" in general. I don't read as many of the general health and husbandry threads as I used to, so there's a good chance I'm missing something. If you get time, can you link me to some of the threads where this is (or was) going on? Thanks.

I guess "a growing number" would not have been quite as accurate as to say there are certain individuals.
I had originally just said "people" but felt it was too broad and I felt a "couple" of people wasn't quite enough so I just worded it as a growing number.
Hopefully you are right and we are not seeing an increase. I don't really feel there is much of a decrease, though.

.

 

[Roy Munson]

I guess "a growing number" would not have been quite as accurate as to say there are certain individuals.
I had originally just said "people" but felt it was too broad and I felt a "couple" of people wasn't quite enough so I just worded it as a growing number.
Hopefully you are right and we are not seeing an increase. I don't really feel there is much of a decrease, though.

Thanks for the PM, Jimmy. I wanted to post this so that others would know that you had no problem with providing me the examples I was looking for. I hope I'm right too, and that the trend will be for that behavior to decline. I'll be watching for it in my own posting too...

 

[Lennycorn]

I would rather the thread focused on improvement opportunities.

That's what's needed now. A lift.
Thanks Roy.

 

[chibitamalove]

Essentially I have stopped posting as often as I did because I know the hyprocrispy is humongous..

Yeah, it just gets crispier and crispier every day... :grin01:

I basically thing that the site is pretty good. It really just needs a few *fairly* small adjustments, such as a more prominent FAQ section. Right now, it's pretty hidden in that top bar. Even I forget where it is. But if it stood out, then that would probably cut back on a lot of newbie questions.

I, personally, like the rep points. But I do agree that it should only be given points. There are some people that post just to get the rep points. For me, the rep points help me tell who's really helpful on the site. People like Dean, Jimmy, and Janine (I think--diamondlil) have loooooots of rep points, and I know you guys are practically revered on this site. :grin01:

 

[zwyatt]

But what can be done to make the site better and to turn discontent into enthusiasm again?

More posts by Dean!

But seriously...I haven't taken the time to read this whole thread. However, one of my main suggestions was mentioned on the first page. -- A moderator.

I'm not talking about just some member with an inferiority complex and a penchant for bringing out the brass knuckles a little too quickly. But just someone who can help keep the streets clean. For instance, I know that in the past I've seen some of those troll posts in the chit-chat forum stay there for quite a while and people keep posting in them. If there was another moderator, it might help to clear up some of those types of things. Plus, having an extra enforcer around might relieve some of the burden from Rich and might help to keep some of the disgruntled members in-line since they'll know that they've got more than just one person on the look-out for poor behavior.
However, I would draw the line at one extra mod. I definitely don't believe this site needs a whole host of moderators. It doesn't absolutely even need an extra one now, but it might help out...I don't really know for sure.

Like I said, the choice of who took on the task would be important. You would want someone mature and level-headed who isn't prone to being pulled down to the level of those who cause the problems. The last thing Rich would need would be another headache when his moderator starts getting into battles with members.


Other than that, I don't see a lot that needs/can be done. I mean that in a good way. I think this site is growing and continues to be a great place just by carrying on the way it has for a long while now.

The one other thing that I might suggest be considered is just for each individual member to think more critically about their actions. Before they make a post or get upset over something, take a step back. One luxury the internet provides is the chance to slow down or stop before we make a dumb post. There's plenty of time to cool off and not hit the submit button.
Interenet forums an easy place for us to bully one another. It's not our fault. It's just natural for us to build ourselves up by putting others down at times. Everybody does it at one point or another. However, with a bit more effort on each individuals part, we could eliminate a lot of the bickering and inflammatory things that go on.
I'm not referring to controversies regarding morphs or other topics that are meant to be debated, but the posts that put new member's down or insult other members just because we find their comments "dumb" or whatever. Those types of things could be drastically reduced if there was just a bit more individual accountability and policing.

I dunno. That's my little sentimental, "why can't we love one another" bit for this evening.

 

[carol]

I think what would help is a pact made by Rich and the members. Of course if both sides are not in agreement in this pact, than an attempt by either side is useless.

What would help this site is an end to public accusations. I'm willing to stop if Rich is willing to stop. I'm very certain that many others are with me. When it is unarguable that certain people have behaved inappropriately, than there is nothing wrong with a broad statement that "this behavior" is unacceptable. What I do not find acceptable or constructive is broad statements that "some people feel this way and I will publically announce my interpretation of other people's actions as a fact".

I admit I have had a large part of keeping the arguments going. I have done so only because I feel Rich's broad accusations leave large holes in the reader's imagination regarding who he is really talking about. I feel that people could include myself and other "innocent" members in the "group" that he accuses. If someone says "Everyone that doesn't wear green on St. Patty's Day wants to be pinched", and I hate the color green, I'm likely to argue with them. It's not nice to announce your "take" on other people's feelings publically. I admit I've been doing this. I also want to point out that it is even worse to announce your "take" on other people's feelings publically but to not address these people personally so they don't have a chance to respond. It's like if I posted a statement on this forum saying, "Some forum owners have a chip on their shoulder", only to later say "Well Rich, if the shoe fits wear it, and if it doesn't than you should have assumed I was talking about a different forum owner."

I think Rich has every right to dictate what is acceptable and unacceptable. I do not it is right to make assumptions about people's behavior a public announcement of fact. Because it is your house and you HAVE the right to do something, doesn't make it right. I HAVE the right to feed my Hypo Lav Blood to my kingsnake and could get a million interpretations on if it IS right. I gave him quite a few weeks of is own treatment and I'm ready to stop if he is.

I vote for private resolution (on everyone's behalf) if you have problems with a select few members. If the problem is with an ongoing unacceptable attitude, than address the behavior as unacceptable, but do not address your perceived motivations behind the behavior. Besides, what on earth would this forum have to gain by reading some people's speculation on other people's behavior, whether the post be by the forum owner or member?

I'm sorry if this was not as constructive as you were hoping for Dean, but it is the only thing I can see that will heal some VERY important wounds of this site.

 

[Joolz68]

I know, I know, I talk too much! Anywho...

I want to start by saying, "This is a GREAT FORUM! That's why I'm here."

There are many wonderful ideas already in this thread. My favorites:

I like the idea of new members being required to wait a few days to post, both for spam control and to encourage a little helpful lurking and reading before posting.

I think 2 days max would be acceptable. Most members say they read several post before signing up. Some even lurked around for weeks. So what's 2 days?

a confirmation email is generally sent to a person's email address to confirm a new account; in the email, there could be a link straight to the FAQs section

the FAQs can be split down in to seperate threads - ie, it could look something like:

How can I get my snake to eat?
How do I use my heat mat?
How will I know when my snake is shedding?

(etc etc). And each of those would be a seperate thread title.

Once they join, in the New Members' Confirmation Email would be the FAQ's link, as above, with questions they could refer to if there's a crisis at hand. I also think the question format would help alleviate a problem with the Search Feature (namely, getting extra responses that don't pertain to the question asked, but just has the search words in the thread).

maybe it would be possible for new members to start out in a member group that can ONLY view the FAQ sections after they register. After that time, they're automatically promoted to a new group that allows them to view and post in the rest of the forums on the site.

For the first 2 days, let them VIEW all sections, but no posting. Maybe next, posting to New Members and Photo Gallery. (And New Members Questions, if that becomes it's own topic.) This would be where the Mod(s) would be able to review posts made by the Newbies (making sure they don't ask redundant questions already answered in the FAQ's). Maybe give a warning the 1st time, a suspension the next (so respect of the Forum can be earned, and respect for it's rules can be learned). I don't know how long this period should be. But if everything goes well, THEN have full access to all forums.

I love the spell check.

I don't see why that's not just automatic for EVERY post. If just to help with the Search Feature. After all, if the word isn't spelled right, how can one search to find it later?

get rid of the rep point system OR make it given points only and not based on number of posts.
"people will see a person has a high number of rep points so will be more secure in that poster's knowledge"

I fell for that trap, thinking the person MUST know what they're talking about, look at ALL THAT REP! Thankfully it didn't come to anything harmful. But now I search previous posts of a person I'm not familiar with before taking any advise.

How about a Shows and Events forum and/or calendar?

How 'bout it?

As for any lingering hostilities amongst my fellows members...

it seems pretty simple to me. Treat others as you wish to be treated and everything else will fall into place. Bashing a newcomer for asking a redundant question is not what we're all about here, I hope.

That pretty much says it all for me.

 

[DAND]

Speaking of rep points, I don't even really get what that is. I mean, I see that people have them, but when I first noticed it, I couldn't find an explanation, like in the FAQ, of what it was all about. I have sort of figured it out since then. I don't know of another forum that has anything ismilar, though- so it would be nice to have that all explained. I mean- I didn't even know you could go look at your own rep points till I found it by accident...

Nanci

Nanci,

I have explained the rep points here a number of times and I'll see if I can find one of the threads where I have explained it and send you or post the link. If you have any questions about the rep points before I find it feel free to PM me and I will do my best to explain it to you if you'd like.

 

[DAND]

:idea: Pertaining to the 7 to 2 day no post suggestion. If there were a way to have newbie posts screened/approved somehow prior to submission it could be very helpful. It would definitely do away with the spammers.

 

[Shade]

I just thought that I'd say, I really like the idea of a shows/events forum. It would make it easier for people who live in areas like say, Kansas, to find local herp events, and see who, if anyone, is going.

Also, I know that on Invision PowerBoard, you can force certain members to have their posts screened by a moderator before they're actually posted. I don't know if you can set up a group like that with vB, but if you can, and if we had a small handful of moderators, that would be one solution to all of the redundancy in questions, and the spamming.

 

[marty.warwick]

Pertaining to the 7 to 2 day no post suggestion. If there were a way to have newbie posts screened/approved somehow prior to submission it could be very helpful. It would definitely do away with the spammers.

I agree. How about having it so there's like a 2-3 day period where, rather than not being able to post at all, they just have to be approved by a mod during that period - Which, like a few people, I think there should be a more of. Make sure they are nice people. :grin01:

 

[Susan]

OK...I've seen some good ideas...and some not-so-good ideas.

I like the 1-2 day waiting period before a newbie can post.

I DON'T like the idea of a general newbies catch-all forum for them to post all their newbie questions. Husbandry questions should stay in the husbandry forum, feeding questions in the feeding forum, etc. Otherwise, everybody is going to have to wade through a huge mess before they get what they want. A newbie with a feeding question, while waiting for a response to their post, will more than likely start looking at all the other feeding threads and perhaps learn something during their wait.

As for more moderators...not needed in the forum. We do a good job moderating ourselves and Rich can handle the problems we bring to his attention. A moderator or 2 could be useful in chat, but the big question is WHO? I say more than one because I don't care how much you love being in chat, everyone has another life to live and can't be there 24/7.

And something for the Canadian/European For Sale forums...the regular For Sale forum is limited to contributing members only...a privilege of our contribution. Not implementing similar restrictions in the Canadian/European forums simply wouldn't be fair. Leaving it open to all would also be an open invitation for all kinds of For Sale threads that would be inappropriate.

And having a moderator screen all newbie posts for awhile...I don't think so! First off...what a major invasion of the freedom of speech! And second...what idiot-without-a-life would even think of taking on that extremely time-consuming, totally thankless task and that could be trusted to do it properly?