Roy Munson
New member
Maybe we could get the big frozen rodent distributors to pre-perforate their products. 
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cutting mice before feeding
- Thread starter debcash
- Start date
BabyMowgli
just one more....
Hi,
I just now learned about this cutting the mice technique and I was wondering, if I don't cut the pinky and he eats it fine, should i just keep not cutting, or should i start cutting it?
I just now learned about this cutting the mice technique and I was wondering, if I don't cut the pinky and he eats it fine, should i just keep not cutting, or should i start cutting it?
Bobo's Mama
proud corn mommy!
He will probably eat it just fine whether you cut the mouse or not. Cutting the mouse makes it easier for your snake to digest the mouse AFTER he has eaten it. Not to be gross, but it is so his stomach acid doesn't have to work as hard at digesting the mouse. Cutting through the skin makes him digest faster, at least that is what I have learned from this. Please, someone correct me, if I'm wrong.
BabyMowgli
just one more....
Awesome, I will have to suck it up next week and cut his pinky then, I only want what is best for my little buddy! Thanks for the info!
Roy Munson
New member
In the old days, I used to feed live prey exclusively. I remember that some of the mice got a little torn up in the feeding process. I wonder if the snakes' tiny teeth did enough tearing to make it analogous to the cutting of f/t by a keeper. I would think that the act of pulling the prey into their jaws would cause little tooth penetration into the carcass, but subduing prey may be a rougher affair. I doubt that my thought is correct, but it's just a thought... :shrugs:
Slippery Ernie
New member
heh, "pinking shears". I think I'll get some too. I pulled out my sharpest pocket knife and sliced away last night. Man that skin is hard to get through. Lets just say I saw some guts and a head popped :eek1: Lesson one: Don't hold the head with hemostats while cutting.
Hurley, how often did you feed the snakes in your study? How old were they?
Hurley, how often did you feed the snakes in your study? How old were they?
They all ate on the same schedule, once every 5 to 7 days (most often 7 days). The hatchlings were fed 15 times, so the study ran from hatch to 15 feedings. They were allowed to skip only one feeding (like for shedding) at a time or else they were dropped from the study if they skipped 2 or more. I wanted to keep things as controlled as possible, so only steady feeders were included.
They were randomly assigned to a group, some hatchlings from each clutch were in each group, so there shouldn't be any genetic variation leading to the results.
They were randomly assigned to a group, some hatchlings from each clutch were in each group, so there shouldn't be any genetic variation leading to the results.
Hurley -
Thanks! I read it in the news letter awhile back and couldn't remember who had done the study. We have so many new corn snake folks on the forum now that I thought it would be helpful to mention it and its great to see the data again - what an amazing difference!
Are there some other studies underway this year?
Thanks!
Deb
Thanks! I read it in the news letter awhile back and couldn't remember who had done the study. We have so many new corn snake folks on the forum now that I thought it would be helpful to mention it and its great to see the data again - what an amazing difference!
Are there some other studies underway this year?
Thanks!
Deb
The 2005 season was so darn hectic this year that I didn't get to run anything, but I've got some planned for 2006. That means several clutches aren't going to sell until the studies are over. That's where I ran into problems this year. Hatchlings sold off before I could do anything. :sidestep:
There will be a delay on selling this season. I'll let you know the results when I have them.
That means several clutches aren't going to sell until the studies are over. That's where I ran into problems this year. Hatchlings sold off before I could do anything. :sidestep: There will be a delay on selling this season.
I'll let you know the results when I have them. 
CornLuv
Jeni
Man.. I don't think I'd have the stomache to cut a mousy But.. sooner or later, I do plan on recieving a hatchling anyways! When I had gotten my first corn.. he was 3 months old, and I wasn't told to cut down the backs of his pinkies.. although by the time he was 4 months old.. he had already beeen big enough for fuzzies.
But.. sooner or later, I do plan on recieving a hatchling anyways! When I had gotten my first corn.. he was 3 months old, and I wasn't told to cut down the backs of his pinkies.. although by the time he was 4 months old.. he had already beeen big enough for fuzzies.
JoannaD
Formerly known as jodu
Are you continuing this with your adults?
If you have continued this with some of the 2004 holdbacks do their growth rates seem to surpass previous yearlings- i.e. can you compare with old records? Also did you have holdbacks from any of the group that you fed without cutting the skin? If so did you then begin cutting the skin on their food and did their growth rate increase or even catch up to the others?
I am wondering if the effect only works if you begin doing this from the beginning and can small snakes "catch up".
Sorry lots of questions but I am intrigued. I hope my quesions are clear.
Thanks,
Joanna
If you have continued this with some of the 2004 holdbacks do their growth rates seem to surpass previous yearlings- i.e. can you compare with old records? Also did you have holdbacks from any of the group that you fed without cutting the skin? If so did you then begin cutting the skin on their food and did their growth rate increase or even catch up to the others?
I am wondering if the effect only works if you begin doing this from the beginning and can small snakes "catch up".
Sorry lots of questions but I am intrigued. I hope my quesions are clear.
Thanks,
Joanna
My holdbacks from 2004 after the study all went on cut mice, like the rest of the collection. I can only tell you generalities, since I quite measuring past 15 meals. They seem to be able to handle larger meals and seem to gain weight "quickly" compared to what I'm used to. This is very subjective, obviously, since I am not measuring growth rates at this point. I guess my thoughts were (for the older ones) that it can't hurt and may help. It would be interesting to split up "keepers" to 2 groups and watch them over a year or two. So far, I haven't taken this one on.
edit to add:
Oh, forgot about the part where you asked if they catch up later. I can't answer this (although I suspect that yes, they would speed up as the available nutrition is increased) specifically because my holdbacks were all from the other groups. I make it a point to hold back the best eating, largest hatchlings when possible. Since the control group was "runty" compared to the others, I didn't end up holding any back.
edit to add:
Oh, forgot about the part where you asked if they catch up later. I can't answer this (although I suspect that yes, they would speed up as the available nutrition is increased) specifically because my holdbacks were all from the other groups. I make it a point to hold back the best eating, largest hatchlings when possible. Since the control group was "runty" compared to the others, I didn't end up holding any back.
JoannaD
Formerly known as jodu
Thanks...
I wonder about more overweight snakes if people start doing this with snakes that are at a healthy adult weight.
I did cut into the backs of the fuzzies that I fed my 05s tonight! And I plan on trying this with my 04s too!
I must say I find cutting mice easier and less messy when they are frozen. I have been using an old fashioned razor blade to cut pinkies into pieces for my baby garters for a little while now.
Thanks again
Joanna
I wonder about more overweight snakes if people start doing this with snakes that are at a healthy adult weight.
I did cut into the backs of the fuzzies that I fed my 05s tonight! And I plan on trying this with my 04s too!
I must say I find cutting mice easier and less messy when they are frozen. I have been using an old fashioned razor blade to cut pinkies into pieces for my baby garters for a little while now.
Thanks again
Joanna
When I get a real statistician to work the stats. She will help me out with that after we've finished the stats on my "real" study (for work). LOL That one is a bit larger.
I'm still trying to make it through her book on statistics (entitled "Statistics for Health Professionals" by Susan Shott...a great read if you are masochistic and like this stuff, her 2nd edition is in the works now...) Hopefully soon I'll have edjumacated myself well enough on the subject to not have to consult the statistician for future experiments. I'll get it submitted someday, when I get the time. Probably to the Journal for Herpetological Medicine and Surgery or one of the others you mentioned. So much stuff to do, so little time. Darn this "real" job.
She will help me out with that after we've finished the stats on my "real" study (for work). LOL That one is a bit larger. I'm still trying to make it through her book on statistics (entitled "Statistics for Health Professionals" by Susan Shott...a great read if you are masochistic and like this stuff, her 2nd edition is in the works now...) Hopefully soon I'll have edjumacated myself well enough on the subject to not have to consult the statistician for future experiments. I'll get it submitted someday, when I get the time. Probably to the Journal for Herpetological Medicine and Surgery or one of the others you mentioned. So much stuff to do, so little time. Darn this "real" job.
On the obesity issue, I don't think it's as big an issue for adults (despite the fact that you could always just feed them less often if it becomes an issue). I think they tend to do a better job digesting their meals anyway. They eat a much lower % of their body weight with each meal and aren't churning food through asap to keep growing like the hatchlings. I doubt that it makes much of a difference in total calories digested for adults. I think it does make it easier for them to do so, and quicker, but I doubt it affects them to the extent that it does hatchlings.
I believe the largest benefit is in those guys on pinkies up through fuzzies, where you are trying to get them over that hump to where they really start to grow (generally at fuzzy size). It will be interesting if someone runs a test looking at growth rates followed out for 3 or so years on a group.
I believe the largest benefit is in those guys on pinkies up through fuzzies, where you are trying to get them over that hump to where they really start to grow (generally at fuzzy size). It will be interesting if someone runs a test looking at growth rates followed out for 3 or so years on a group.
poppycorn
Luv my bright-eyed jewels
Can I ask how many snakes were in each group?
Did each treatment group contain the same number of snakes from each clutch? It's a cool study, just intrigued by the statistics and what the options are for analyzing the data.
And yes, I always clip the pinkies.
Marsha
Did each treatment group contain the same number of snakes from each clutch? It's a cool study, just intrigued by the statistics and what the options are for analyzing the data.
And yes, I always clip the pinkies.
Marsha
ultimuttone
Murphy is my Sancho :/
After reading this thread I decided to cut the mice this feeding. I don't know about anyone else who is just trying this, but my little guys ate quicker than they ever have! Apparently not only will it be better for them, but they liked it.
Bobo's Mama
proud corn mommy!
After reading this thread through a few times, I also decided to cut for the first time. I think it really enticed my little guy. He kept biting it before he actually started to eat it. Although he did eat his peach fuzzy backwards this time. :crazy02: