newsnakeowner1978
New member
kentuckycorns said:
OMG HAHAHA. That is the dumbest thing I ever read. I am not from the states, but isnt' the states made up of ppl from other countries. Just like here in canada. Man that was raciest and low. Some ppl.
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did the vet kill my baby corn?
- Thread starter linzxxx
- Start date
OMG HAHAHA. That is the dumbest thing I ever read. I am not from the states, but isnt' the states made up of ppl from other countries. Just like here in canada. Man that was raciest and low. Some ppl.
kentuckycorns
New member
UKCryptid said:
Did i say anything about the color of your skin??? hell i dont even know what color you are and i dont really care, you are just another keyboard cowboy. its real easy to call someone out on the internet, i was just making an obvious statement that is true. Now you can call me what you want i really dont care its not gonna hurt my feelings
but you start saying things like "people like you" and "Racist fool" come over to the US take a ride down here to kentucky, where we know three things real well Bourbon, horses, and A$$ whippins and most people are good at all three have a nice UK day
dawnrenee2000
Contributing Member
Roy Munson said:I don't disagree with your points. I have never mistaken Vinny for a diplomat.
To be honest, I was thinking the things that Vin posted before he posted them. And although I wouldn't say that he was kicking a person who was down, I avoided posting my thoughts for fear of making this very impression. I feel that Vinny's views were instructive to anyone who stumbles across this thread later, and that alone makes me regret the sense of diplomacy that prevented me from speaking my own mind.
With that regret in mind, I'd like to say:
We all make mistakes, but improper enclosure security is one of the biggest mistakes that a snake keeper can make. I'm always baffled by how few people on this forum are confronted for allowing escapes. I can't recall a single incident. My own sense of diplomacy has prevented me from bringing this up in those threads. But I wonder how many escapes may have been prevented if this "don't kick them when they're down" mentality did not exist. :shrugs:
Wow, Dean. I think I love you. I think you express yourself very well.
:bang:
Roy Munson
New member
Now you've crossed the line. Nationalism and racism aren't the same things. Consider this a warning. Your next round of name-calling and inflammatory remarks will earn you a 3-day suspension.UKCryptid said:
And as for your previous comments, I am not about to start holding every poster to some vague standard of conduct that meets your approval. Vin could have written things differently, but that doesn't mean that he was obligated to do so.
dawnrenee2000
Contributing Member
Okay guys...Lets face it. Stuff happens and its not always fun. The snake got out, and it didnt survive the experience. That is sad and it is always partly the owners fault when that happens and the vet may have made some bad choices as well. As owners these animals are our responsibility and by the animal getting loose it was let down by its care taker. To make up for that mistake, she did all she felt was correct to try and nurse it back to health, but that didnt turn out well either as the vet made a bad choice in actions. Vin is 100% right about how to rehydrate a small snake in this situation. He knows what he is talking about, even if he doesnt say it gently.
It shouldnt be a blame game..but since the name of the post is "did the vet kill my snake" the focus has gone to who is to blame..the keeper or the vet. I personally think both had some fault in the equation, but neither on purpose so its chalked up to a learning experience.
Sometimes internet communications are difficult , since we have no expression or emotion to put with our words. We should remember that before we go off on these tangents....
It shouldnt be a blame game..but since the name of the post is "did the vet kill my snake" the focus has gone to who is to blame..the keeper or the vet. I personally think both had some fault in the equation, but neither on purpose so its chalked up to a learning experience.
Sometimes internet communications are difficult , since we have no expression or emotion to put with our words. We should remember that before we go off on these tangents....
Plissken
Crazy Snail Lady
dawnrenee2000 said:
Wise words
On the Internet we work with what we are given - there is no way to tell in what context or tone something was meant to be taken.I mostly have no problem with someone 'telling it like it is.' I just feel it can be pushed too far on a sensitive and upsetting topic like this one. Just to clarify, I have no personal issues with anyone I spoke with during the course of this topic, and trust there are no hard feelings.
Vinman
Vinman
Thanx people, I never was mean just was blunt I been this way for years . I was allways the one in the crowad that brought out in the open any underline problems . that's me, not affraid to say what is on my mind. I tell it like it is I have no time to pussyfoot around . Dont get me wrong I just dont make it as crude as possibile. Just short and direct.
can i just say ive not taken offence to anything written in this thread! maybe i shouldnt of taken him the vets, maybe i should of just let him be for a few more days but i cant turn back time no matter how much i wish i could! i had him back for 3 days befor taking him the vets and to be truthfull the only reason i did take him was because he wouldnt eat! i cut pinkies up for him and tried a number of times to see if he'd eat with no luck! and yes it is my fault hes dead as it was MEthat forgot to lock the viv one night and my young son opened the viv, thats how he got out! so yes it is my fault i know that and im really paying for it now with the guilt im feeling and the wishing id done this and that diffrent! your right im not a pro on this matter but i just did what i thought was best and if id of know about this site when it all happened maybe i would of asked everyones opinion on here but i didnt and i cant change that either! thanks to everyone that posted
Vinman
Vinman
I gald that you posted the whole story. Much diffrent than the first. The first post is more like a breef. Look I will say this a again Live and learn . No big deal crap happens. wash out the viv with a 10 % bleach solultion. call me and I will walk you through everything. This is the best time to get a new animal. It is that time of the year where snakes are hatching out. good luck on your new friend any problems come on the board or call me.
Do you think with all my animals and so many years of doing this I didn't make any big Boo Boo's. Just last year I did a blunder . I had a screamer bearide that I got in a trade and put it in the G.P., there was one there that I hatched that was a 3/4 of a inch bigger, but guess what, that one got attacked and killed I blame myself. I just put it in the big cage for a few min. while I washed out a bin for it . Got destracked for a extra few min. and wamo dead dragon. I was so depressed it burned me somthing awlful. For weeks I hurt and even thought of getting rid of all my dragons , I still have them and known that I should have left it in the shipping contaner for a little while longer. What a stupid move on my part.
Do you think with all my animals and so many years of doing this I didn't make any big Boo Boo's. Just last year I did a blunder . I had a screamer bearide that I got in a trade and put it in the G.P., there was one there that I hatched that was a 3/4 of a inch bigger, but guess what, that one got attacked and killed I blame myself. I just put it in the big cage for a few min. while I washed out a bin for it . Got destracked for a extra few min. and wamo dead dragon. I was so depressed it burned me somthing awlful. For weeks I hurt and even thought of getting rid of all my dragons , I still have them and known that I should have left it in the shipping contaner for a little while longer. What a stupid move on my part.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
Although everything important has pretty much been said, I think it is worth adding to this because novices may search this in the future and make decisions based on what is said here.
I am sorry for your loss. Things happen - almost every keeper has at one time or another let a snake escape. It is how you learn what to do so you don't keep repeating the mistake. If you keep enough snakes, you will probably do it again someday, but hopefully not often, or anytime soon.
I also would have advised waiting at least a few days for a vet visit, since the snake was drinking and looked basically ok. I would have pretty much echoed Vinman's advice - just more diplomatically.
I have not had great experiences with vets over the years. They have killed a few of my snakes, helped a few, but mostly neither helped nor hurt. They do have knowledge, access to equipment and medicines that I do not have, so there is a place for them.
But I never actually discourage somebody from going to a QUALIFIED HERP vet if they want to. That is because I am not there to personally evaluate the animal, and it is not my snake. The owner would feel really badly if they didn't go and the snake died - they would feel they didn't do everything they could have done. If the snake is past helping no matter what, but is a real pet (that the owner thinks of in the same way many people think of their cats and dogs), then the feeling of having done everything possible can be very important to the owner.
You have to remember that citizens of industrialized countries have been conditioned for a long time to trust in the "experts" - doctors, vets, plumbers, electricians - whatever specialty we need, we hire an expert. And most pet keepers have been taking their cats and dogs to vets forever, usually with pretty good results. They don't realize that the body of knowledge for herps is nothing like it is for cats, dogs, and other long domesticated animals. And that results for herp visits don't have the high success rates of dog and cat visits (judging by my own experience, anyway). So we should not be surprised that pet keepers would feel the most caring thing they can do when in doubt is to take their herp to the vet, "just in case". The reason for this long post is to let future readers know that it isn't always the best route to go.
I do believe vets should be held to a much higher standard than a pet keeper (obviously). I have no idea why a vet would tube water into a snake that is already drinking well. My guess is that it not only stressed out the baby, but "drowned" him as well. I would like to hear the rationale for that treatment from the vet who did it. My guess is that the vet just wanted to do something (anything) to make the client feel like something was being done to help the snake (in the same way that many doctors would prescribe an antibiotic for a viral infection to make the patient feel like they were doing something for them). But the vet should have realized that it wouldn't help and might be dangerous. Waiting a few days (or more) and tubing a little liquid food would have seemed more logical.
For future readers of this thread - take your snake to a herp vet if you feel it is needed. But do not let them do just any treatment they suggest - without question. Ask why they are doing whatever they are doing. If it doesn't seem logical, ask them to call another herp vet for a second opinion. And before leaving for the vet (unless it is an emergency), check with some other breeders or forums to get their opinion. Then use your own sense of logic to decide the best course of action to the best of your ability. And no matter what the result, don't feel guilty if you have done the best you can - that is all anyone can expect of themselves.
Sorry for the book length post, but I was hoping to get everything I have to say into one post.
I am sorry for your loss. Things happen - almost every keeper has at one time or another let a snake escape. It is how you learn what to do so you don't keep repeating the mistake. If you keep enough snakes, you will probably do it again someday, but hopefully not often, or anytime soon.
I also would have advised waiting at least a few days for a vet visit, since the snake was drinking and looked basically ok. I would have pretty much echoed Vinman's advice - just more diplomatically.
I have not had great experiences with vets over the years. They have killed a few of my snakes, helped a few, but mostly neither helped nor hurt. They do have knowledge, access to equipment and medicines that I do not have, so there is a place for them.
But I never actually discourage somebody from going to a QUALIFIED HERP vet if they want to. That is because I am not there to personally evaluate the animal, and it is not my snake. The owner would feel really badly if they didn't go and the snake died - they would feel they didn't do everything they could have done. If the snake is past helping no matter what, but is a real pet (that the owner thinks of in the same way many people think of their cats and dogs), then the feeling of having done everything possible can be very important to the owner.
You have to remember that citizens of industrialized countries have been conditioned for a long time to trust in the "experts" - doctors, vets, plumbers, electricians - whatever specialty we need, we hire an expert. And most pet keepers have been taking their cats and dogs to vets forever, usually with pretty good results. They don't realize that the body of knowledge for herps is nothing like it is for cats, dogs, and other long domesticated animals. And that results for herp visits don't have the high success rates of dog and cat visits (judging by my own experience, anyway). So we should not be surprised that pet keepers would feel the most caring thing they can do when in doubt is to take their herp to the vet, "just in case". The reason for this long post is to let future readers know that it isn't always the best route to go.
I do believe vets should be held to a much higher standard than a pet keeper (obviously). I have no idea why a vet would tube water into a snake that is already drinking well. My guess is that it not only stressed out the baby, but "drowned" him as well. I would like to hear the rationale for that treatment from the vet who did it. My guess is that the vet just wanted to do something (anything) to make the client feel like something was being done to help the snake (in the same way that many doctors would prescribe an antibiotic for a viral infection to make the patient feel like they were doing something for them). But the vet should have realized that it wouldn't help and might be dangerous. Waiting a few days (or more) and tubing a little liquid food would have seemed more logical.
For future readers of this thread - take your snake to a herp vet if you feel it is needed. But do not let them do just any treatment they suggest - without question. Ask why they are doing whatever they are doing. If it doesn't seem logical, ask them to call another herp vet for a second opinion. And before leaving for the vet (unless it is an emergency), check with some other breeders or forums to get their opinion. Then use your own sense of logic to decide the best course of action to the best of your ability. And no matter what the result, don't feel guilty if you have done the best you can - that is all anyone can expect of themselves.
Sorry for the book length post, but I was hoping to get everything I have to say into one post.
Corny Noob
Proud Momma
vBulletin Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kathylove again.
Very helpful post Kathy, I knew there was a reason why we all look up to you :cheers:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kathylove again.
Very helpful post Kathy, I knew there was a reason why we all look up to you :cheers:
bitsy
Owned by Corns since 1991
This whole thread has been worth it for that advice, and it's great to have it from a true expert.
Questioning what a vet is doing (or not doing) is a very hard lesson to learn, especially for those of us used to taking their word as gospel on furry matters.
A dog or cat will show distress very obviously, but the signs in reptiles can be much more subtle and sometimes only discernible to their keepers, who know them well.
I trust my vet. But I can think of one occasion when if I'd trusted my own gut as much, I would have insisted he acted sooner. That would have saved my Corn's life.
Thanks for the timely reminder Kathy.
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
Vinman, I too feel that you could have been more diplomatic. I do appreciate your advice and experience, but not always the way you write your posts. Sometimes the way you write makes it difficult to see the good from the bad. Being a little less blunt could help people to actually listen to and learn from you, IMO
MegF.
That's for sale???
Wow, just found this thread and couldn't believe how it deteriorated. First off, I'm sorry for the loss of your snake. Secondly, I've had the unfortunate need to take my green tree python to the vet on an emergency prolapse. The vet though, made sure she told me everything she was going to do before she did it. She gave me the reasons why and allowed me to make the decision, and as luck would have it, to watch and assist. I feel the vet you went to was partially out of line for having done a treatment on the snake without explaining what was going to be done. I have found that a "reptile expert" ain't necessarily so. The emergency vet that I went to was the best that clinic had. I felt quite comfortable with her and she was even kind enough to call a couple of weeks later to follow up on my animal. However, she had never done the surgery we had discussed if there had been a need, only read over the procedures. She did at least recognize the species and made sure she was placed in a warm moist incubator until she could check her out. The follow up visit I made to my local vet, who is registered on RNAV, was not all that productive. Although he's an RNAV vet, he didn't even know that Tempest was a GTP. I knew more about prolapse than he did. He was however, more than willing to learn more and was going to consult with some of his collegues that were reptile vets at zoos etc to see if he could find out more about the condition and causes. I'm sure he could treat a basic RI or something like that, but I wouldn't go to him for anything really serious. I'd probably go to a recommended vet up north who has GTP experience. All "specialists" should be treated with a grain of salt.