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Example of What's Wrong with America

kathylove said:
If you take into account ALL of the taxes, fees, licenses, etc, that must be paid by most citizens to every city, county, state, and federal agency, I think you would find it a huge burden compared to a few decades ago. Everything from sales taxes, property taxes, state income tax, and don't forget increasing costs of car and driver licenses - the list goes on and on and on. Lots of these fees and licenses were unheard of by our parents as we grew up. Others were in place, but much smaller amounts or percentages.
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Not to mention fire tax, and if you own a small business inventory tax (that is a tax on any inventory you stock, and then you get taxed again when the inventory sells too).....
 
Nova_C said:
Yes, it makes sense that there is a correlation between higher taxes and less charitable giving, although in some cases the reverse is true (In many cases, people will use charitable donations as a way of reducing taxes and there is a trend that higher taxes result in higher overall donations, but that is certainly not ironclad, only a trend).

However, I'm not sure what exactly is happening here because I keep getting the feeling you think I'm wrong. But what you're saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Like, at all. All I'm saying is that the government is taxing the people less now than they have in decades. It's at or near the lowest point in US history. However, Outcast suggested (Though didn't explicitly say, so I am inferring here) that taxes have been going up. Which they haven't.

That's all I'm saying.

And this quote:
When an individual fosters societal begrudging and actively seeks prejudice in others they will find it regardless of existence.

I can't parse it fully. I think I get what it's saying, but I may need some context or I am totally missing the relevance.
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Sorry I stepped away to handle some real world issues. Not at all. I think you are correct I was just pointing out that it hasn't dropped as much as it looks on the surface.

kathylove said:
If you take into account ALL of the taxes, fees, licenses, etc, that must be paid by most citizens to every city, county, state, and federal agency, I think you would find it a huge burden compared to a few decades ago. Everything from sales taxes, property taxes, state income tax, and don't forget increasing costs of car and driver licenses - the list goes on and on and on. Lots of these fees and licenses were unheard of by our parents as we grew up. Others were in place, but much smaller amounts or percentages.
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Exactly. Fees, taxes, reduced deductions, license, tolls, etc, etc, etc.

starsevol said:
Not to mention fire tax, and if you own a small business inventory tax (that is a tax on any inventory you stock, and then you get taxed again when the inventory sells too).....
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Capital gains tax, inheritance tax, personal property tax, etc .........................
 
Here's a good one. I can buy a rifle with a 16" barrel all day long. Change that to under 16" and I can still buy it I just have to pay the ATF $200 for an NFA tax stamp.
 
When an individual fosters societal begrudging and actively seeks prejudice in others they will find it regardless of existence.
tsst said:
10 chars...
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I didn't respond to the pig thing, because it offended me...I responded, because when using an analogy it's important to create distinction on who/what makes up the parts of that analogy. The purpose of an analogy is to tie together complicated concepts with something tangible in order for their to be understanding...When the analogy was unclear she went even further by breaking it all down, which I very much appreciate!.

I realize when I put what I put that I'm in the minority so I don't reach with what I say as though I'm coming from a place of inferiority...Some people have this idea like disabled people, or people on gov't assistance, have an obligation to explain themselves to everyone else. That is not the case...I've seen enough "Uncle Obama" remarks to know it exists, so I don't even need to explain that there's prejudice. I just want to clarify my opinion so that there's an open dialogue about it...Implications are for people who vent, not for people who want an evolving discussion. Otherwise we just get 23 pages of people trying to prove to themselves that they're right, which is just wasteful.
 
The only way to escape prejudice is to die. It is unfortunate, but that is it.

I saw a really interesting bumper sticker today, it said, "We cannot expect the minds who created a problem to be the same ones to fix it." or something along those lines...
 
Shiari said:
Found an interesting video, that made me think of the analogy that Kathy posted and we all debated:

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The irony too, is who's this coming from?...This woman has nice clothes, jewelry, an office, she looks well fed, so clearly she's very privileged. It's not like she's suffering from people who get food-stamps and even if she were she's in luck; she can apply for food-stamps. People want to flex themselves so much to satisfy their ego's without ever thinking from the perspective of other people. Food-stamps are a cushion for people who do fall to get the basic of human necessities which is food. Like it was suggested earlier, if people's problem is that the food-stamps go to something other than food than I get that 100%. People need to be using them for food, and smart food as well. Not just junk food or take-out.

These analogies, and others like it, aren't just intended for people who misuse food-stamps though...They degrade every person on gov't assistance regardless of circumstance. That is what's very prejudicial, very judgmental, and very foul. I don't even speak for myself, because I could have a billion dollars in my pocket tomorrow and I'd be the same person. The only difference would be in how other people see me. Wealth is the most powerful definition of character in this country right now and that's so despicable to me...Either we're all animals or none of us are. People need to look in the mirror and be grateful regardless, because at the end of the day in order to have an opinion you need to be breathing and if you're breathing you have no right to complain about anything. Life is good for us all.
 
Foodstampgroceryreceipt.jpg
 
A few things:

First, I'm sure you know how easy it is to doctor this stuff with photoshop.

Second, yes some people abuse a system meant to help. But that doesn't mean that many, or even most, people do.

Third, what if it was for a celebration, such a child graduating highschool or getting into a college or getting a scholarship? Are people on foodstamps expected to buy nothing but bread, peanut butter, and carrots?
 
Actually, if you really need foodstamps they would not be going for lobsters. I know I was a single mom of 2. Every last dime of food stamps goes for food you need. Once in awhile you would buy candy or a reward for your kids. But really they don't usually give you enough to last a whole month.

I am all for the welfare system to help those in need and yes there are those that abuse the system and it is disgusting.
 
Shiari said:
A few things:

First, I'm sure you know how easy it is to doctor this stuff with photoshop.

Second, yes some people abuse a system meant to help. But that doesn't mean that many, or even most, people do.

Third, what if it was for a celebration, such a child graduating highschool or getting into a college or getting a scholarship? Are people on foodstamps expected to buy nothing but bread, peanut butter, and carrots?
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First, sure I do. Also doesn't mean that it was.

Second, yes some people do as evidenced by examples in this thread. Excusing and/or ignoring does not fix the problem.

Third, NO NO NO I expect them to buy food staples. Food stamps are not 'hey lets have a party' money, period! If I cannot afford a lobster and steak party I sure as hell wouldn't think it is ok for me to take money from someone else so I could. I expect people in such need for food stamps to use $141 in food stamps to buy as much normal food as they can, NOT to have a lobster and steak fest on taxpayers dime. I am sure that makes me the bad guy in eyes of the pro wealth redistribution folks but that is my opinion.

I assume they did not get a special party food stamp stipend so that would lead me to believe they were short feeding their kids or maybe everyone in the family after the party.
 
Just felt like chiming in. Think the real root of the problem is not necessarily the system: but this overall feeling of self entitlement I seem to see (particularly in my generation, and younger generations). It's people like this:

**warning this is unbelievable, there is a slight chance while watching this video you will get a pit in your stomach of rage, disgust and disbelief**



That's right, they commit a crime and are upset they have to return the fruits of the crime AND actually get charged. These girls have such a feeling of entitlement it's unfathomable. And yes--this is totally legit.
 
I'm not sure that equating disabled people with criminals is very helpful in this instance. Some people genuinely need the support on offer - as has also been demonstrated by this discussion.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Actually, if you really need foodstamps they would not be going for lobsters. I know I was a single mom of 2. Every last dime of food stamps goes for food you need. Once in awhile you would buy candy or a reward for your kids. But really they don't usually give you enough to last a whole month.

I am all for the welfare system to help those in need and yes there are those that abuse the system and it is disgusting.
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Then why do i see people buying twinkies and soda with food stamps?

There's enough money to help those who need it, but not to help all those who want it.

And about people who "abuse" the welfare system, don't hate the player, hate the game. If people can get something for free, they will. Doesn't matter if they "deserve" it or not.
 
bitsy said:
I'm not sure that equating disabled people with criminals is very helpful in this instance. Some people genuinely need the support on offer - as has also been demonstrated by this discussion.
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Oh, I totally agree. I was just trying to say it's generally people like that who give the welfare system a bad name. People seem to pick out the worst of the worst on welfare and then scream for reform of the system.

I personally believe it's the governments responsibility to institute programs like WIC, welfare, etc. It's such a shame that people abuse it, then makes the rest of us call into question if these systems should be in place, when these systems help out so many who truly need it.
 
For the record I agree we should to help those that really truly need help. But I think the systems used to accomplish that should be rigorous in qualification. They should also be constantly adjusted to control the abuse. Simply shrugging off abuse as being inherent is not acceptable in my opinion.

If the bank started taking money out of your bank account weekly and told you 'you should expect and accept some amount of account abuse' what would you do then? I doubt many that accept welfare abuse would accept similar abuse from their bank on their account. Most if not all would expect the bank to fix the abuse/problem. Why should we expect any less from our government?!?!
 
That's not just a problem in the States tho, the thread should be called "Example of what's wrong with the world" !!

I live in Jersey (no not New Jersey lol) and people, especially locals (we have a massive Portuguese community here) abuse the system and never ever get a proper job but always have plenty of money to go out, decorate their house like 3 times a year,etc. And if the States try to cut them of one will be sure to pop out a baby :(

But people who actually need help just until they get themselves sorted are denied help and don't get a damn penny. I have been paying my Social contributions and tax for years but I am NOT eligible for Welfare at all.

I have never been on Welfare in my life (knock on wood, don't wanna jinx myself) but knowing that if I needed it, I would not get it is not very nice. And I am gonna have to start from square one again in Austria (thank God for an amazing family :) ).

I am all for helping those who are in need but it makes me sick that some people enjoy life, throw money out like there is no tomorrow, and have never actually worked a proper job !!!!

I have not taken a penny from my parents since I was 15 and am quite proud of that. Where there is a will, there is a way. Unless you have health issues, care for a sick/disabled family member or any other special circumstances, for me there IS NO EXCUSE to be on Welfare.
 
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