Frozen/Thawed vs live feeder rodents

[starsevol]

I only feed my corns F/T. In my opinion, there are just too many risks to feeding live. I have seen many pictures and heard many horror stories about snakes being eaten alive by mice, and even under supervision one small bite could lead to a very bad infection, weakened immune system, or both. Not to mention that live mice can sometimes harbor parasites that freezing would otherwise kill. I also agree with starsevol about handling being enough being enough exercise for snakes. You can even simulate live feeding by dangling the mouse around with forceps or tongs.

Oh yeah, I have one very strange little girl, Nyota.
She is supposed to be on hopper mice but won't touch anything with fur so she has to have multiple fuzzies.
But she will grab the mouse off the tongs and twirl allllll overrrrr the viv like crazy. After she stops, if it is a fuzzy she will eat it, if it has fur she will slowly wander away....wierd girl she is!!!

 

[Susan]

well to be honest as i said i heard this story from my vet...i dont know how accurate he is but hes some one who would know.if frozen mice had the same nutrition as a live one what would be the point of people buying injection of vitamin c for frozen mice feeders..

There is an issue in boas and pythons concerning Vitamin C and rupturing of the skin, but it is NOT related to whether they eat live or frozen mice. It depends upon whether they are able to synthesize the needed vitamin C by their kidneys and/or intestines.

Snake Skin Peal and Vitamin C Deficiency

 

[N@te]

yeah ive tryed feeding frozen two times before he wont eat it. he was born eating alive ones...and i know what you mean about those scary pictures of snakes that got eaten up by mice/rats buy you gotta know from some those pictures out there of stuff like that one picky snake would gotta be in a cage a looong time with a rodent...this may sound disturbing for those who love little furry animals but when ever i get an bad tempered mouse you can always stunn it..

 

[Susan]

How did you "prepare" and present the F/T meal? How much time did you give your snake to eat it and how many days since his previous meal? Sometimes, to switch a live eater to F/T, they have to be good and hungry and various presentations may need to be tried, such as how hot is it, is it wet or dry, did you have it do the "zombie dance", did you leave it with the snake just a few minutes or overnight?

 

[starsevol]

yeah ive tryed feeding frozen two times before he wont eat it. he was born eating alive ones...and i know what you mean about those scary pictures of snakes that got eaten up by mice/rats buy you gotta know from some those pictures out there of stuff like that one picky snake would gotta be in a cage a looong time with a rodent...this may sound disturbing for those who love little furry animals but when ever i get an bad tempered mouse you can always stunn it..

Kinda does sound disturbing....but it is something you probably should do anyway. If I were a mouse I would prefer being out of it before being eaten by a snake! And like I said, while most bites happen if the mouse is left in the cage with the snake, some bites do happen in a split second and infection or worse can result!!
I have heard it is not too hard to switch to f/t either. I had a friend who was an expert on the local snakes in my state, and he had a huge native collection of animals he caught himself. He used to use them for educational talks. And every single one of those wild caught snakes ate frozen thawed, I saw it with my own eyes!!

So, think about it!
Just look at allll the benefits....

Safer for the snake

Nicer for the mouse

No parasites

easier on your wallet

less time consuming because you don't have to go to the pet shop on feed night

And more of us will like you!!

It's a win/win!!!

 

[N@te]

There is an issue in boas and pythons concerning Vitamin C and rupturing of the skin, but it is NOT related to whether they eat live or frozen mice. It depends upon whether they are able to synthesize the needed vitamin C by their kidneys and/or intestines.

Snake Skin Peal and Vitamin C Deficiency

interesting link..

 

[N@te]

How did you "prepare" and present the F/T meal? How much time did you give your snake to eat it and how many days since his previous meal? Sometimes, to switch a live eater to F/T, they have to be good and hungry and various presentations may need to be tried, such as how hot is it, is it wet or dry, did you have it do the "zombie dance", did you leave it with the snake just a few minutes or overnight?

well the last time i tryed to feed him a frozen one was about a month ago.i let it defrost then put it in hot water for awhile then i dryed the water off of it.i left him in the feeder cage for about probably almost 3 hours he didnt show much interest at all to it...then the next day i bought an alive one he ate it pretty fast.so i dont think it has to do with hunger.

 

[starsevol]

well the last time i tryed to feed him a frozen one was about a month ago.i let it defrost then put it in hot water for awhile then i dryed the water off of it.i left him in the feeder cage for about probably almost 3 hours he didnt show much interest at all to it...then the next day i bought an alive one he ate it pretty fast.so i dont think it has to do with hunger.

Nate, I think Susan meant that your snake should be good and hungry before trying to switch him over. And if he refuses, don't run out and get him a live one the next day....

 

[N@te]

..im sure after awhile of a mouse/rat being frozen after awhile it wont be as healthy for them as it was.yeah i know some mice can hold parasites..but even some stuff we eat we can get parasites and the person i get my mice from takes pretty good care of them i could say better than alot of most places that sell feeder mice..

 

[Susan]

well the last time i tryed to feed him a frozen one was about a month ago.i let it defrost then put it in hot water for awhile then i dryed the water off of it.i left him in the feeder cage for about probably almost 3 hours he didnt show much interest at all to it...then the next day i bought an alive one he ate it pretty fast.so i don't think it has to do with hunger.

Well, if I put a plate of liver down for my kids to eat for dinner, they would barely touch it, yet if a gave them pizza in a few hours, it would be gone. Now if they had not had anything to eat in over a day or two, that liver would be gone soon after offering it.

Skip a regularly scheduled meal and offer a F/T again. I'll bet he'll show much more interest in it. And if it's an adult snake, skip yet another meal if the F/T goes uneaten. There is a difference between being hungry and being HUNGRY!!

 

[N@te]

Nate, I think Susan meant that your snake should be good and hungry before trying to switch him over. And if he refuses, don't run out and get him a live one the next day....

so if he doesnt wanna eat am i suppose to let the mice spoil and buy more and try again

 

[starsevol]

so if he doesnt wanna eat am i suppose to let the mice spoil and buy more and try again

Nutricionally they should be close to the same.
Freezing really does not hurt anything. Remember, a snake in captivity eats more often than a wild snake so they get plenty of vitamins from thawed food.

And yes, if he does not eat, toss it and try again in a week. Since frozen mice bought in bulk cost way less than live anyway, the sooner you get him eating them the better and to waste a few is not that bad!!

 

[starsevol]

I have over 40 scaley little darlings and all of them eat thawed without a problem.

 

[Tick-Tag]

You could try another approach. Instead of feeding him frozen mice, you could give him a freshly killed and still warm one. He might take that and after some feedings like that, he will probably be used to eating dead mice and then you can try a frozen one again.

 

[Shiari]

All of my snakes eat F/T. I just bought some 600+ frozen mice of varying size for under $200. That's 33 cents per mouse. To get a live mouse, it costs me a minimum of $1.25... and that's for any size, pinky or adult. Frequently, the store is out of live pinks and fuzzies.

So by feeding f/t, not only am I saving $550, I'm also going to always have the right sized prey item on hand. The mice take up very little room overall, and are no more odd to me that having frozen fish or chicken. Equally, it is much safer for my snakes, and far, FAR kinder to the mouse to be humanely euthanised via CO2 than be squeezed to death.

My snakes have all always been on F/T. They are all doing just find, growing well, perfectly healthy.

 

[starsevol]

And Nate, both Susan and Shiari and vet techs or vets themselves.
Their jobs have to do with the health and well being of beloved pets.
They would not feed something inferior to their own animals...

 

[knox]

I have never had a snake that didn't eventually switch over to F/T, and only a few problem feeders.

Most, especially Corns and Kings, take to them the very first try.

 

[Wyldrose]

I breed my own mice, I love pet mice, my adult mice all have names and I know their genetics( I dont like the boring pink eyed whites). I cull the pinkys starting with the males in the litters. I keep enough babies alive to replace ageing does and to help with lactating females, trust me mastitis is not fun lol! My petshop rarely sells females, so I find it best too keep does and buy a new buck every so often. My "extra" mice and retired are sold off as feeders. I'd rather them be used then die and rot in a landfill.
This keeps my freezer with a constant stock for my snakes, I do hope to breed corns one day.
I look at it like this way in the wild snakes go into the mouse's environment, if the snake strikes and gets the mouse its supper time. If the snake misses the mouse runs away and the snake keeps hunting. In a cage the snake misses the mouse it has no where to escape so it will fight. We all know what can happen when a mouse fights for it's life.

 

[AliCat37]

Nate, it is admirable that you have tried to feed him f/t before. I'm glad that you're not feeding him live for your purposes.
Having mice in the freezer was only weird for my parents, but you can always put them in a few plastic bags and a tuppaware container. I actually have a little mini fridge/freezer combo that I use for my mice and rats since my collection has grown from 3 to 10 in the last year.
There are several ways to get snakes to eat f/t, and I think the easiest way to do so is to brain the mice- something about the smell of brains makes them go crazy! I did this and the zombie dance with the bullsnake that's only ever eaten live and he ate without hesitation.
While it is true that many snakes get bitten and chewed up because of negligent owners leaving them with the mice, my friend used to feed live and she did the same thing that I used to and held the mice over her snake, and her snake got bitten- the teeth slipped right under scales on her stomach. She bled a bit, but eventually was fine, but my friend switched to f/t after the incident.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I just have to add my two cents.

My spotted python Serj came to me as a rescue. He is badly scared from live rodents. I am in the process of switching to f/t for the safety of my beloved scalebaby. It is totally frustrating and at times I want to pull my hair out. But seeing his scars every day remind me why I am going through all the trouble.

I do have to get his feeding responses started with a live rat pup and then put in either a freshly killed rat or f/t.

Frozen rodents are just like your typical frozen steak, porkchop or chicken breast. They can be kept frozen without losing nutritional value as long as most pieces of meat, so I am told by my cousin who teaches meat science at the University of Arkansas.