Heating Imbalance?

[Warthog32332]

Keep the probe over the warm side, inside the hide if possible [emoji4]


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Alright. I'm also going to have another thermometer. And what exactly do you mean over? My tank has a metal wire mesh over the top, Do you mean like on the mesh or how exactly? And since I'll have two sources of information telling me about the temperature I figure I can keep one on the inside of the hide and one just on the generally warm side.

 

[sian.kelly]

The probe should be placed over the warm side or directly on top of the UTH to get the most accurate reading. You shouldn't need another thermometer, you only need one per UTH. Just place the temperature probe over the area the UTH is, touching the ground. It doesn't need to be inside a hide but if it is that's fine. I hope I haven't confused you sorry!


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[Karl_Mcknight]

Those heat pads can hit 115 degrees. Your Corn snake will burrow under and through the aspen. He will come into direct contact with the bottom of the tank which is where the heat pad is. 115 degrees you might think is not hot enough to burn, but you can't think like a human with 98.6 degree temp. Snakes are different, and 115 degrees is way too hot for a corn snake. It's too hot for all snakes in fact. That is why you need some way to regulate it. The majority of us here use heat pads, not lights, and the majority of us use Thermostats or Rheostats as opposed to just plugging it in and piling aspen on top of it.

 

[DollysMom]

I put my thermostat probe on the outside adhered to the undertank heater. Then I have the probe of a digital thermometer in the hide on the glass. While the number on the thermostat does not read 85 F all you do is gradually raise or lower the thermostat setting to get to 85 on the thermometer. I use that exact thermostat an get a steady 84-85 F on the thermometer on the glass. And my snake does burrow down in the warm hide and makes a little nest above the heat mat when she wants the maximum heat of 85 F.

 

[daddio207]

Hmm alright. Much obliged for the info. It's so confusing getting into all of this as it feels like I have about 50 different pages telling me 50 different things. But I'm figuring it out.

This was touched on in the care sheet I directed you to......
" We suggest reviewing the latest written data resources (books and Internet chat forums) regarding the keeping of corn snakes before acquiring one, but keep in mind that anyone can publish anything on the World Wide Web, and much of what you find on the subject of corn snake care is not peer-approved by professional corn snake breeders and keepers."

Some of us have studied herpetology for decades and actually put to test many aspects of keeping reptiles.
Does anybody really believe that a person who has hatched and sold 40,000+ snakes would write a care sheet that was not in the best interest of his customers and snakes?
I would also dare say that a lot of newbie failures with hatchlings are related to this unfounded fear of burning their CORN snake by over regulating the heat and not providing the proper digestion temps.

OP, Again, I'm not saying to not use a thermostat. Like I said if it gives you some peace of mind then go ahead but please don't discount SMR's care sheet and 40+ years of breeding, raising corn snakes. Please reread it


Dragonling Quote: "You've just summed up all of herpetoculture."

This is true but mainly in relation to internet forums where the amateur herpetoculturist learns from others and where it is hard to dissect the experienced from the newbie. (That's not a shot at anybody )

 

[Warthog32332]

This was touched on in the care sheet I directed you to......
" We suggest reviewing the latest written data resources (books and Internet chat forums) regarding the keeping of corn snakes before acquiring one, but keep in mind that anyone can publish anything on the World Wide Web, and much of what you find on the subject of corn snake care is not peer-approved by professional corn snake breeders and keepers."

Some of us have studied herpetology for decades and actually put to test many aspects of keeping reptiles.
Does anybody really believe that a person who has hatched and sold 40,000+ snakes would write a care sheet that was not in the best interest of his customers and snakes?
I would also dare say that a lot of newbie failures with hatchlings are related to this unfounded fear of burning their CORN snake by over regulating the heat and not providing the proper digestion temps.

OP, Again, I'm not saying to not use a thermostat. Like I said if it gives you some peace of mind then go ahead but please don't discount SMR's care sheet and 40+ years of breeding, raising corn snakes. Please reread it


Dragonling Quote: "You've just summed up all of herpetoculture."

This is true but mainly in relation to the internet where the amateur herpetoculturist learns from others and where it is hard to dissect the experienced from the newbie. (That's not a shot at anybody )

I'm not intending to discount anyone, I just want to get a better feel for whole concept of taking care of a snake which is new and different to me and do what I know and am assured by many people is safe before I experiment. I'm not saying the information you've provided me is useless. But quite honestly.. Hmm. Let me use an example. Lets say an Army general. 5 stars, the united states is in wartime. Makes a move. He has 50+ years under his belt and has been involved in numerous conflicts around the world. But his decision gets 10,000 U.S. Soldiers killed and the whole offensive was a complete failure. Sure he's a pro, and sure he could be the "best" at something, but had he listened to his advisers and taken the safer defensive route, those 10,000 Soldiers might get to see their families again, alive. Now as I've stated I'm not discrediting your care sheet nor the author of it. However I'd rather take a safer more well-known route to start out with and be in my comfort zone than do something not as many people do and have the chance of messing up and regretting it. However I have looked to the care sheet as it is to answer several of my questions and I thank you for offering it to me. It has proved a valuable resource.

 

[sian.kelly]

I've honestly never heard of anyone saying to not use a thermostat until today. Since its your first snake, better to be safe than sorry and there is no harm in using a thermostat [emoji4] I don't want to discredit you or the care sheet you use Daddio207 but I'm just trying to provide information that I believe is correct, that I have heard from many other keepers and breeders [emoji4]


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[daddio207]

Warthog,
Your welcome. I again commend you for researching and trying to make the best decision for your pet. :cheers:

Sian,
The use or lack of using a thermostat has been brought up dozens (maybe hundreds) of times on here.
Like I've said if it comforts corn snake keepers to use a thermostat then go ahead.

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There will always be one bad general in every army BUT I can guarantee that everybody on here that recommends the use of a thermostat also will agree that SMR is a five star General of the CORN snake world and has never led his army to disaster.
I'm no General in the CORN snake world but my resume' is extensive in herpetology and the care of animals in general.
Your example was an interesting point of view but why in the HERP world would an expert (General) in something take the advice from newbies(advisors) and discount our own decades of actual experience in favor of info not based on years of experimentation in something

I'm terrible at analogies so I'll skip it and go right to what we know about certain snakes. Just like a kangaroo joey upon birth genetically knows to crawl to its mothers pouch and scorpion babies know to get on the back of their mother for safety we also know that a CORN snake is genetically programmed to know if a surface is to hot for contact. Are all snakes programmed this way? Absolutely not ! We also know that a ball python will lay on a surface that is to hot and result in burns. BP's will also lay in their own urites and develop water blisters requiring oral or injectable antibiotics. A BOA constrictor will wrap itself around a ceramic or incandescent heat source resulting in burns. We know all this through trail and error and decades of keeping these species in captivity. So through first hand experience we know a CORN snake as with many colubrids that they will not harm themselves on hot surfaces. I know that a lot of info based on other snake species "bleeds" into corn snake care on forums.

I'm not trying to convince you or anybody not to use a thermostat but trying to stop the habitual posting of incorrect information. :cheers:

 

[sian.kelly]

I've never seen the topic come up on here but I've not been as active as I'd like to be recently. I've never heard of SMR but I'm UK based so I don't know any US big name breeders. I'm sure a corn will move if too hot but I want to make sure it's not so hot that my corn snake never lies - my UTH doesn't regulate itself so would reach ridiculously hot temperatures so I will continue to use a thermostat. But I do see the reasoning for not using one, I just wouldn't trust my UTH to regulate itself [emoji4]


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[Dragonling]

The only potential problem I see with not using a thermostat isn't that it could burn the snake, but if the mat gets hot enough that the snake never uses that part of the cage, it seems like an awful waste of space. In a rack system that might be no big deal, but a lot of keepers already use tubs that are rather minimal in size.

 

[Warthog32332]

Yeah I could totally understand a breeders rack system not using thermostats. Or just a rack in general. But I plan to just be a casual keeper, for the immediate future anyway. Thank you all for answering my questions. And honestly, I'm glad to see how civil this all was. Not many places on the internet would remain so civil after a disagreement of any type. I'm also glad to see how helpful everyone is here. It's much appreciated.

 

[daddio207]

The only potential problem I see with not using a thermostat isn't that it could burn the snake, but if the mat gets hot enough that the snake never uses that part of the cage, it seems like an awful waste of space. In a rack system that might be no big deal, but a lot of keepers already use tubs that are rather minimal in size.

With the proper thickness of substrate that will not be an issue.

Yeah I could totally understand a breeders rack system not using thermostats. Or just a rack in general. But I plan to just be a casual keeper, for the immediate future anyway. Thank you all for answering my questions. And honestly, I'm glad to see how civil this all was. Not many places on the internet would remain so civil after a disagreement of any type. I'm also glad to see how helpful everyone is here. It's much appreciated.

Well LOL
Even though I don't regulate UTH's on VIV's I do use a thermostat and rheostats on all my rack systems. Here's the reason. In a viv with screen tops excessive heat can escape but in rack systems the heat is trapped in the tubs (except for little air holes) and can build up over a short time hence why thermostats/rheostats are required.
GREAT conversation !! :cheers:

 

[Distaff]

It is a great conversation.
I have had a terrible time maintaining temps. The Ultratherm UTH's I use don't get as hot as heat tape, and at this point, are not maintaining the recommended temps within the warm hides. The UTH's are taped directly to the underside of the glass, and the perimeter of the tank is closed off with styrofoam strips, so heat won't just escape under the feet of the tank. (The tank is slightly raised to accomidate the power cord.) This week, I've only had temps 70-75F. The kings haven't eaten for three weeks - they are active, but seem to think they are brumating(?)

We keep a very cold house, and since we heat with a pellet stove in the living room, and a wood in the kitchen, warming it is not just a matter of simply turning up a thermostat. When temps outside are cold, 65F may be as warm as the snake room gets with both stoves running all day. (This is a very small house, and moving the tanks isn't a good option.) I insulated most of the screen top of each tank, and mostly covered the colder of the two in layers of packing paper, but haven't noticed much of an improvement. That cooler tank also has an additional spare UTH under it.

I broke down today, and ordered 3 RHP's - one each for the two kings, and the corn that is coming. I hope this will solve the problem. Wasn't too worried about the kings since they are native here (literally to our back yard), but that corn is from FL, and could get sick. The breeder just took it OUT of brumation.

 

[Warthog32332]

It is a great conversation.
I have had a terrible time maintaining temps. The Ultratherm UTH's I use don't get as hot as heat tape, and at this point, are not maintaining the recommended temps within the warm hides. The UTH's are taped directly to the underside of the glass, and the perimeter of the tank is closed off with styrofoam strips, so heat won't just escape under the feet of the tank. (The tank is slightly raised to accomidate the power cord.) This week, I've only had temps 70-75F. The kings haven't eaten for three weeks - they are active, but seem to think they are brumating(?)

We keep a very cold house, and since we heat with a pellet stove in the living room, and a wood in the kitchen, warming it is not just a matter of simply turning up a thermostat. When temps outside are cold, 65F may be as warm as the snake room gets with both stoves running all day. (This is a very small house, and moving the tanks isn't a good option.) I insulated most of the screen top of each tank, and mostly covered the colder of the two in layers of packing paper, but haven't noticed much of an improvement. That cooler tank also has an additional spare UTH under it.

I broke down today, and ordered 3 RHP's - one each for the two kings, and the corn that is coming. I hope this will solve the problem. Wasn't too worried about the kings since they are native here (literally to our back yard), but that corn is from FL, and could get sick. The breeder just took it OUT of brumation.

This is something I'm interested to see the answer too myself. Although I must wonder what are RHP's? Sorry probably noob question but, I've never heard of them before, unless I have and I just haven't heard the acronym for it.

 

[Distaff]

Sorry.
Radiant heat panels. Reptile Basics sells them. These are new to me, so I only know what is on that site. They do come highly recommended by many users.

 

[daddio207]

My baby and yearling kings would go off feed this time of year no matter what.
I use RHP's but mainly for lizards. I used them for large snake species in the past also.
Let us know how they work out with your setup.
Have you tried covering the top of the Viv to trap the heated air in that is rising up from the UTH ?

 

[Warthog32332]

Hey so this is a question fairly unrelated to the topic of the post but a question I think may be better answered by more senior keepers. So I play the drum set, I'm a drummer for going on 4 years now. I love the drums, my tastes in music range all across the board in rock. Classic, to metal, to heavy metal, black metal, I mean. Screamo to classic to alternative and everything in between. I love it all. And my drums are in the basement and is fairly muffled by the floor but I can't help but wonder if my playing loudly or say sharp cymbal accents could hurt my snake or its hearing? I don't know how well snakes hear but. Also on occasion I charge my phone in this room. It's my snake/computer room at the moment and being a gamer and all I spend a lot of time here. I have issues charging my phone on the computer so I plug it in on the power strip I'll be sharing with my UTH and such which is right next to my Viv. Could vibration notifications from my phone or as I said before the percussive sounds from my drums affect my snake in any negative way?

 

[Zach B]

Hey so this is a question fairly unrelated to the topic of the post but a question I think may be better answered by more senior keepers. So I play the drum set, I'm a drummer for going on 4 years now. I love the drums, my tastes in music range all across the board in rock. Classic, to metal, to heavy metal, black metal, I mean. Screamo to classic to alternative and everything in between. I love it all. And my drums are in the basement and is fairly muffled by the floor but I can't help but wonder if my playing loudly or say sharp cymbal accents could hurt my snake or its hearing? I don't know how well snakes hear but. Also on occasion I charge my phone in this room. It's my snake/computer room at the moment and being a gamer and all I spend a lot of time here. I have issues charging my phone on the computer so I plug it in on the power strip I'll be sharing with my UTH and such which is right next to my Viv. Could vibration notifications from my phone or as I said before the percussive sounds from my drums affect my snake in any negative way?

Snakes are pretty much def. They may have a little hearing but mostly pick up on vibrations rather than sound. That's not to say that the drums may not bother one but I wouldn't think that the sound would be the culprit so much as excessive vibration. I'm by no means an expert I don't even have a snake yet so others may be able to answer a little better but that's my thoughts.

 

[daddio207]

Snake can hear even though they don't possess an external ear channel. They do have internal ears. They can hear airborne vibrations (sound). In some ranges it is actually pretty good.
If you have an electric drum set you can use headphones ?
When I moved a few years ago I had to combine my music room and my reptiles. I kept my playing to headphones but did occasionally play through an amp. I did notice that most of my collection came to the front of their tubs and stare out at me. Critics!! LOL
Soon after I was able to move my music equipment to another. I really can't say if it had a negative effect but I felt that it was to disruptive to them. My Whites Tree frogs always croak when I play guitar in the living room where their Viv is. Their my worst critics

 

[Distaff]

I used to have a dog who gave me the stink eye every time I took out the violin.