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How do you feel about God.

I'm an Agnostic

I have been hesitant to share my thoughts on God, but after much thought, I feel as though if I am going to participate in this conversation, then in fairness, where I stand should be known. I didn't really think anybody cared, but for those who are interested, I will share. This is not normally something I talk about as God and religion are deeply personal matters.

The short answer is that I am an agnostic. I have not yet seen any compelling evidence that shows there is a God, nor have I seen any to say there is not a God. I do have issue with highly dogmatic people and the really evangelical types. Just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. The rest of this is just a brief lineage of how I arrived at where I stand today. I share this lineage because it shapes my opinion. The truth though really is that I'm just left wondering.

--------------------------------------

I was raised in a secular house in a small town in Indiana, not a state known for tolerance. I was free to explore religion in my house, but nothing was preached to me. Morals and ethics were taught, but not based upon any religious doctrine.

One of my first memorable experiences relating to this topic was in elementary school. I told a student that I did not believe in God and they told me I was going to hell. I did not like that.

I explored some Christian churches in my middle teens. One of them was a church where people used oils and spoke in tongues. My brother, who was a couple of years older than me, became a deeply religious person. He was dating the daughter of a pastor, so I'm sure that had something to do with it. We often would have discussions. I said there was no God, he said there was. I sometimes would have discussions with the youth group ministers at various churches, but they're explanations left much to be desired.

I eventually went to college in Indiana where I was exposed to a wide school of thought. We had the pastors that would come to the open spaces and tell us we were all sinners, but he was not (for some reason). One actually claimed he was saved during a Van Halen concert during the song Running with the Devil. I took a "Religions of the West" course that explained the high points of Islam, Judiasm, and Christianity. It was interesting, particularly as it would have been 2004 or 2005, right around when the Iraq war thing was going down, on the heels of 9/11. The rest of my educational lineage is rather long, but I feel as though I'm pretty well versed in things such as evolution and how science operates.

I can't tell you how mant authors or books on religion and/or science I have read, but I have read some Dawkins, a book by Sam Harris, a bit of Nietzsche, and I'm working on some Foucalt at the moment. I have read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis, but that was some time ago. I've had countless debates with many people, several of which were doctoral students in philosophy. One is a dear friend of mine teaching at a university in Texas (he is the one I mentioned before that told me about Bakunin).

So there you have it.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
There is no divine power of atheism to sway people to commit attrocities in the same manner that there is a perceived divine power of god directing attrocitities in the minds of those that follow blindly those that have the ear of god.
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Actually there are many. One does not need to agree with the devine power in question to use it sway people. Just as there are some that would blindly follow a devine power there are those that would just as blindly rail against a devine power. Lacking the attrocity aspect you yourself have proven that in this thread. :shrugs:
 
Okay, Tsst, I'll bite. I say that I know of no group swayed to commit mass murder, suicide, etc. under the umbrella of atheism. Meaning, that one does not see a man or woman tell its group to commit suicide and actually have that group commit suicide soley in the name of atheism or the inspired word of atheism as atheism is simply the lack of gods or the belief therein.

You do however, have many who have committed suicide in mass, killed, tortured, etc. in the name of a religious cause as they thought their leader had divine insight, there is no divine atheist insight. To my knowledge, there has been no atheist cause that has promoted such things. I just don't see it as atheism has no authority as it admits no authority or divine authority of any kind. Atheism is simply the lack of gods or without gods. Please, if I am mistaken, educate me as I am always open to learning more.
 
tsst said:
Actually there are many. One does not need to agree with the devine power in question to use it sway people. Just as there are some that would blindly follow a devine power there are those that would just as blindly rail against a devine power. Lacking the attrocity aspect you yourself have proven that in this thread. :shrugs:
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I do agree though with your thought, one does not have to be religious to use religion to sway the masses. If your followers believe you have the ear of god, even if you yourself do not believe... I think that in and of itself might be enough.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
How many people would suicide bomb... if they thought there was no hell or heaven... if there was no 72 virgins waiting for them for their deed?
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Yet another misrepresentation of a religion, this is what extremists teach, not the religious leaders as a whole. No where in the Koran does it say 72 virgins. This was printed in a book of things that Mohammad supposedly said, roughly 100 or so years after his death.

Please, research before speaking on that which you do not understand.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns...ran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins
Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
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I can find more if you need it, but am strapped for time. Getting ready for class.
 
Outcast said:
Yet another misrepresentation of a religion, this is what extremists teach, not the religious leaders as a whole. No where in the Koran does it say 72 virgins. This was printed in a book of things that Mohammad supposedly said, roughly 100 or so years after his death.

Please, research before speaking on that which you do not understand.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns...ran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins


I can find more if you need it, but am strapped for time. Getting ready for class.
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I'm sorry, did I even mention a religion with the 72 virgins or the Koran?
 
What other religion has suicide bombers who think they are going to heave with virgins? Really, bad peddling?

Outcast, that is what people dont mention is the extremist in the religions. They group everyone together into one. Just like most baptist don't believe in what the Westboro nut jobs believe.
 
Many religions have sects or extremists as they are sometimes called by those that do not follow their beliefs. This does not negate the fact that there are those that follow certain beliefs however. One often finds that some belief systems are labeled as extremists and others as cults, fringe groups, etc. by those that have followers in larger numbers. The fact of the matter still remains that people can and often are swayed by the belief that their spiritual leader has a direct connection to a higher power, god, etc. Aisha was 6 when she was bethrothed and 9 when her marriage was consumated.
 
Outcast said:
Yet another misrepresentation of a religion, this is what extremists teach, not the religious leaders as a whole. No where in the Koran does it say 72 virgins. This was printed in a book of things that Mohammad supposedly said, roughly 100 or so years after his death.
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Seems to me that this is quite the bonus for such religious leaders. It foists an attack on an enemy where the only casualties on their side will be simply weeding out the dumber members of their own society from the gene pool.

Seriously, do you EVER see any leaders strapping bombs onto their bodies? Otherwise this would eventually be a self resolving problem.
 
Rich Z said:
Seems to me that this is quite the bonus for such religious leaders. It foists an attack on an enemy where the only casualties on their side will be simply weeding out the dumber members of their own society from the gene pool.

Seriously, do you EVER see any leaders strapping bombs onto their bodies? Otherwise this would eventually be a self resolving problem.
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It's a pretty brilliant scheme, aside from the whole collateral damage aspect.

Stay in power, cull the herd, hit the enemy.
 
Outcast said:
Being that is has been found, in one of your studies that you posted, that selective spanking had a better impact on bad behavior than 10 out of 13 of the alternative ways taught. I will stick to my guns. There is a time an a place for everything, and while I agree that spanking is not always the answer, it is sometimes called for, as shown in previous studies that you posted.
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In what cases would it work better then talking, maybe accompanied by another type of punishment like taking away privileges or a time out? And if there is a difference with beating, what is that? Does spanking hurt and beating does not? If so, why not just tap on the table three times instead to show that you are angry? If spanking does hurt, it is despicable to use it.
What is the message of spanking if not that it is a way to get someone to do what you want or to listen? Teaching children it is ok to hurt somebody to make them listen or do something is sowing the seed for abuse. It might not grow in the end, but it can. For me it is a sign of the inability of the parent at that moment to correct behavior in a good way, and/or a moment of loosing their temper. I was spanked maybe ten times in my childhood and it did make clear that my mom was very angry at that moment, but was it the one and only or least harmfull way to let me know that? Quite sure not. Luckily it did not hurt but just had a shock effect and I never ever hit someone myself in my life except my little sister once, because I got that it is not a good way to deal with stuff. Funny detail: my mom delivered me a spank because I spanked my sis, since she was the only one with the right do so she said.... quite weird, ain't it?

Would any adult here accept a spank from there partner to correct their behavior? Honestly? So why woudl we spank our children? If spankers say they are able to explain to children why they are spanked and the children understand that, they should also be able to just explain why there behavior is bad and punish in a different way.

I once saw a tv show in which a mom was taught by her church to spank and then add 'I spank you but I love you' and hug the child to make sure the child did not forget that. The horror.... and she was surprised the kids were stressed out and totally out of control....
 
Rich Z said:
Grasping the possible truth that you are alive today merely based on nothing more than pure luck is a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
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Nope, it is a beautiful, amazing, wonderfull thing! We are unable to understand it to the fullest, yet that does not mean that it is how it is. The universe and anything in it does not need us to believe in anything to exist and do what it does.
 
Nanci said:
Gross. And what do women get? Let me guess. Nothing. Kind of like if you believe in the Mormon version of the afterlife. Seems like a load of crap to me.
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I'm not sure spending any kind of afterlife with 72 virgins would make ME want to convert to any religion! Nor 700, nor 7.
 
SnakeAround said:
Nope, it is a beautiful, amazing, wonderfull thing! We are unable to understand it to the fullest, yet that does not mean that it is how it is. The universe and anything in it does not need us to believe in anything to exist and do what it does.
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I agree, it is amazingly beautiful and awe inspiring to think that we are here on this planet and even capable of having this conversation. We do not need to have any particular faith or religion for these things to happen or to have happened or to explain our appearance. We have science now and no longer need Wakinyan, Zeus, or Thor to explain how lightning forms or any cultures creation mythology to explain to us how we came into being. We have discovered science and evolution. We have so many different beliefs about how we came into existence that vary from one culture to another culture and they can't all be right and yet so different from one another. I also find relief and a sense of well-being when I contemplate that in all likelihood, life will be much the same for me after I am gone as it was before I was here. If I am wrong and I go to some cultures version of paradise or I am denied some cultures version of paradise for my lack of belief or willingness to choose from the plethora of religions/gods out there then so be it, but to me that will be a paradise I would want no part in as so many would be deprived of that paradise for simply choosing the wrong god/religion. I can't see that as any paradise most would like to be in... a paradise watching ones friends and relatives burning forever and eternally in hell simply for having the wrong faith... I can't buy into that anymore than I can buy into any other religion/god.
 
Nanci said:
Gross. And what do women get? Let me guess. Nothing. Kind of like if you believe in the Mormon version of the afterlife. Seems like a load of crap to me.
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The mormon version of the afterlife, its been awhile since I studied that, but memory being what it is... I seem to remember a planet, needing several women to get populate it, gods being in physical form at least at one point, magic underwear, etc. From my memory, and it has been a while since I studied the LDS, it seems that people could attain a state of immortality in a physical or corporeal form and thus populate other planets. I believe the original god was also physical in form.. i.e. of a human type body and flesh.
 
I think a valid point is that there are many beliefs that we do not believe in by virtue of the faith or belief we may have whether it be because we believe in one particular religion or even if we believe there are no facts either way... those beliefs often shape how we view other people's beliefs in some form or fashion. Otherwise, we might find that we believe all religions and belief systems... and how confusing would that be with so many beliefs contradicting each other or even our own personal morality in some cases. We may not say we think they are wrong openly, but in the quiet of our minds if nothing else we all make judgements as to what sounds like baloney and what sounds like something we can put stock in.
 
Love how you are now psychic and know what people are thinking in the back of their minds and how they view their own beliefs. Or are you just making assumptions as to what all of humanity thinks or should think of religion and deities.
 
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