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I finally got my hoggie!!! Introducing Cyrano de Hogerac

Snacking on a hard boiled egg

A few days later Cyrano also tried a hard-boiled quail egg for a snack. He loved it!

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Nommie, nommie, noms!

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Cathy - Yeah, I saw his post on a hognose forum and thought I would try it with Cyrano. He certainly liked it. I figured it wouldn't hurt him every now and then for a snack. Once he is big enough I might try a whole, raw quail egg. Several hognose websites say that they will eat bird eggs in the wild. I also saw pics of someone's hognose eating raw chicken breast chunks. Not sure if I want to try that, but I thought it was interesting.

Theresa - there is a woman at a local farmers' market that has quails, so she sells their eggs. They are about the size of my thumb tip.
 
I didn't know they liked quail eggs! Maybe I'll try giving Charlotte one, if I can find them anywhere... she'd probably chow it down, like she does with every rodent I offer. :D
 
Oh, and cute pictures - especially where he's peeking out from the substrate. :) You should try putting him on a shag carpet/rug if you have one... we have a little shag bathmat, and Charlotte LOVES to tunnel around in it. So cute!
 
Lolo - probably a regular egg cut into small pieces would work, too. I just used the quail eggs because they were smaller and I wouldn't waste as much. I didn't give him the whole egg, maybe just 1/3. I was worried about making him sick.

Hmmm, maybe I will look for a small shag bathmat for him to play in. Thanks for the idea :)

I was at Home Depot looking at plastic pipes. They have a textured one that I tought about using to make a spirally jungle gym with connections so he could explore in it. Have you tried anything like that for Charlotte?
 
Scared the beejeesus out of Cyrano

So, I went to feed Cyrano the day before yesterday, and decided to bump him up a little and thawed a hairy hopper (he usually gets large rat pinks). I think he thought the hairy thing was something that was going to attack him or something, he started flipping about in the feeding bowl and hissing like mad. I quickly took the hopper out and he calmed down. I found another rat pink and thawed that, but I think he was so stressed by the experience because he refused to eat :(

I feel so bad! I scared my little boy . . . . I am waiting a few days to try feeding him again. Hopefully it will go better next time!

Has anything like this happened to anyone???
 
So, I went to feed Cyrano the day before yesterday, and decided to bump him up a little and thawed a hairy hopper (he usually gets large rat pinks). I think he thought the hairy thing was something that was going to attack him or something, he started flipping about in the feeding bowl and hissing like mad. I quickly took the hopper out and he calmed down. I found another rat pink and thawed that, but I think he was so stressed by the experience because he refused to eat :(

I feel so bad! I scared my little boy . . . . I am waiting a few days to try feeding him again. Hopefully it will go better next time!

Has anything like this happened to anyone???

I have this happen whenever my hognose are going off of feed to possibly shed. I say possibly because sometimes they just don't feel like eating all that frequently either for other reasons too, like breeding or being gravid or other unknown hoggie reasons. My Superconda who would eat 2 fuzzies every 3 days has now decided to not eat for close to a month now. Am I worried? Nah, they've all done stuff like this and it's just part of them being a hognose. I think part of it has something to do with their growth cycle as well, they eat voraciously when they go through their little growth spurts but then stop whenever their body growth slows down a bit. It could also be when they notice a change in the weather, that it's time to brumate. But I'd be willing to bet that if you are keeping yours warm that's it's possibly a shed thing.

Trust me, they eat when they are hungry. I highly doubt you scared him just because the food was a little bigger. Instead of a few days, give him a week before you try feeding him again. Introducing food just a few days later after this type of reaction for me has never resulted in an eating response, just more pissing and hissing.

Just remember, hoggies are slower growing and don't get to be as big as most colubrids, so their shedding cycle is less frequent and takes a bit longer than you might be used to with your corns. Just make sure he has a moist hide and a fresh supply of water at all times because if he is going to shed, you don't want to deal with him having a stuck shed. Not that it's impossible to deal with, but it's harder for them because of their facial structure.

The bottom line is, hognose are just a different type of snake with behaviors that take some getting used to. If he was doing fine before, he's more than likely still fine. Just be patient and enjoy all the weirdness that goes along with being a hognose keeper. :D
 
Thanks, Troy! I've been a little stressed. Since I have really only kept corns, it is hard for me to know what is normal for Cyrano and what isn't ~LOL~ You're right, in my head I have been comparing him to how my corns are . . . . I've been worried that he has only put on 6 grams since I got him, so when he refused to eat, I started getting worried, thinking he was going to lose weight. Ok, I will stop comparing him to my corns and just accept him :)

I do find it odd that he seems to digest his food faster than the corns, but grows slower. I guess I thought faster digestion = higher metabolism = faster growth. I have also been worried that he hasn't shed yet (again, thinking of the corns). How often do your younger ones shed, and will it look like corns? Eyes cloudy and scales dull/muted?

I bumped him to a 20long to give him more climbing/crawling space. He is so active compared to my corns, I thought more space would be better. He now has lots of tubes, caves, vines, etc. to explore. He has a heat pad at one end and a ceramic heat bulb over the center. I will make a little container with moist moss in it in case he is getting ready to shed.

I have noticed he seems less active the last few days, staying buried in his aspen. Is that common before shedding?

Oh, and I'll wait a week to try again :)

I am so glad you responded! It helps to have someone who has so much more experience with hoggies. Thanks again.
 
How often do your younger ones shed, and will it look like corns? Eyes cloudy and scales dull/muted?

It helps to have someone who has so much more experience with hoggies.

Sweets ate just fine on Tuesday night, but I barely see him out. I wonder the same thing, is he going into shed? Is he still just digesting? I took him out for a few minutes last night, and he still had a slight bulge...

Theresa in Indy
 
Thanks, Troy! I've been a little stressed. Since I have really only kept corns, it is hard for me to know what is normal for Cyrano and what isn't ~LOL~ You're right, in my head I have been comparing him to how my corns are . . . . I've been worried that he has only put on 6 grams since I got him, so when he refused to eat, I started getting worried, thinking he was going to lose weight. Ok, I will stop comparing him to my corns and just accept him :)

Yeah, they are definitely NOT like corns... maybe in some ways, but hoggies truly have a unique personality. I've seen Charlotte hiss at food before, maybe once or twice, and it was because I woke her up (fed at a different time than usual). I guess being woken up from a deep sleep with a mouse dangling in your face can be a tad intimidating. :uhoh: I'd agree with waiting a week, and/or until the snake has shed - if he is in fact about to shed. Don't worry, I doubt a hognose would starve themselves to death!

I do find it odd that he seems to digest his food faster than the corns, but grows slower. I guess I thought faster digestion = higher metabolism = faster growth. I have also been worried that he hasn't shed yet (again, thinking of the corns). How often do your younger ones shed, and will it look like corns? Eyes cloudy and scales dull/muted?

I was frightened the first time Charlotte went into shed, because her underbelly (usually black) turned silver... I thought something was seriously wrong for a minute! So you might want to look for that sign, and the usual cloudy eyes & personality change. And yes, they do tend to hide and burrow while in shed - in fact it's the only time my girl doesn't demand attention 2-3x a day. ;)

I bumped him to a 20long to give him more climbing/crawling space. He is so active compared to my corns, I thought more space would be better.

That might actually be too big, and one reason he was nervous at feeding time... mine weighs 85g, and just recently moved into a 15qt tub (about equivalent to a 10gal tank). Some snakes are fine with more space, though, so I'd only consider that a factor if he continuously refuses food. Good luck!
 
Thanks, Troy! I've been a little stressed. Since I have really only kept corns, it is hard for me to know what is normal for Cyrano and what isn't ~LOL~ You're right, in my head I have been comparing him to how my corns are . . . .

You're welcome! :) Believe, I've been there too when I got our very first pair of hoggies. They totally baffled, worried, confused and amazed me because I too had only kept Corns and Kings at that point, so their behaviors and attitudes really threw me for a loop. You will find over time that this is what really endears you to hognose as there's just no comparison between them and most other colubrids. This is why they've become my all time favorite snake even though I've kept Corns for over 15+ years.

I've been worried that he has only put on 6 grams since I got him, so when he refused to eat, I started getting worried, thinking he was going to lose weight. Ok, I will stop comparing him to my corns and just accept him :)

Actually, 6 grams in the short time you've had him is pretty decent weight gain for a male. He might really start to slow down when he hits about 70 grams and then slowly ease into the 90's or 100's. Like I said before, it's not unheard of for male hoggies to go completely off of food for 30-90 days sometimes during non-brumation periods. Sure, he'll lose some weight but as long as you don't really see his body getting to the point of looking bony, he should be fine.

I do find it odd that he seems to digest his food faster than the corns, but grows slower. I guess I thought faster digestion = higher metabolism = faster growth.

Yeah, this aspect had baffled me too. But then again, wait until the non-feeding process takes over when they don't want to eat for an extended period. Then you'll really wonder about how they can go soooo long without food while having that high metabolism. ;)

I have also been worried that he hasn't shed yet (again, thinking of the corns). How often do your younger ones shed, and will it look like corns? Eyes cloudy and scales dull/muted?

The shedding process is pretty much the same although much less frequently. Neonates might shed 3-4 times in the first 2 years and then it gets down to 1-2 times after that depending on their rate of growth. The biggest problem with hognose is like all snakes, they start their shed at the nose. Well, the nose on a hognose is the hardest part for them to get off and it seems like the thickest scale they shed off. Their facial scales, especially around the mouth, are also quite different. As long as they get enough fluids and moisture during this process, it should all come off pretty easily. In the event that it doesn't, then you might need to soak them for a short duration and even help them take the skin off. As with all snakes, make sure that all of the shed has come off of them, especially the nose and eye-caps. The nicest things about hoggies is they have a fairly blunt tail, so you don't have to worry too much about that ol' dead tail-tip problem like you do with Corns but it still can happen if you don't check them out to make sure it's come off.

I bumped him to a 20long to give him more climbing/crawling space. He is so active compared to my corns, I thought more space would be better. He now has lots of tubes, caves, vines, etc. to explore. He has a heat pad at one end and a ceramic heat bulb over the center. I will make a little container with moist moss in it in case he is getting ready to shed.

You might think he's more active than your Corns because he's a diurnal snake unlike your Corns which are typically more nocturnal in nature. Of course all of this kinda gets disrupted and thrown out the window while in captivity.

A 20L will be more than enough tank for a male hognose. The majority of mine are in Sterilite tubs about the floor size of a 10 gallon. For the majority of my males, this is adequate enough space for them to cruise around in and do their thing. In fact, I still have 10 gallon enclosures too that I keep some of mine in. Because space is a limiting factor for the amount of snakes I keep, I reserve the bigger sweater tubs and few remaining 20L's for my females or for my King Snake collection.

I have noticed he seems less active the last few days, staying buried in his aspen. Is that common before shedding?

Yeah, that is pretty common behavior for most snakes when they are going to shed. Also remember that hognose are digging snakes anyways, so it might come to that point where he's explored his surroundings as best as he can and then decides he just wants to stay buried half the time whether he's hungry or shedding or neither of those things. Sometimes I have to make sure that some of mine are still in their tubs in case I left them with a female or in the very unlikely case that they got out. ;)

[quot]Oh, and I'll wait a week to try again :)[/quote]

And if you see him going blue, just leave him alone until after he sheds. I guarantee, if you spook him, that cute little hognose you love so much will scare the pants off of you! I still react a little when mine "explode" with a head butt and hiss when I spook them. They seem so docile until you piss them off. :D

I am so glad you responded! It helps to have someone who has so much more experience with hoggies. Thanks again.

As always, it's my pleasure! Don't hesitate on contacting me if you have any other questions. :)

Sweets ate just fine on Tuesday night, but I barely see him out. I wonder the same thing, is he going into shed? Is he still just digesting? I took him out for a few minutes last night, and he still had a slight bulge...

Theresa in Indy

Well, if you haven't noticed a defecation, more than likely he's still digesting his food considering that you still see a bulge in him. Most snakes will become inactive as they are digesting meals, especially large meals that put a bulge in them. You might want to consider smaller meals on a slightly more frequent basis as hognose have a completely different metabolism. I used to feed mine 1 mouse that was roughly the same size as the largest part of their girth but I found that feeding 2-3 smaller sized mice has worked much better for my males as well as some of my smaller breeder females. They seem to be growing better and have a better appetite as well as staying more active. I do however have a couple of huge females that could probably eat 2 full grown mice with no problem at a time if I were to offer them that much food.
 
Don't worry, I doubt a hognose would starve themselves to death!

Untrue...

Actually, you should always monitor their weight and keep an eye on their appearance. I've had a few adult individuals that would do fine for a year eating and then go off of food for more than 6 months which obviously can be very taxing on their system. Those individuals got to the point of having no interest in food and losing a significant amount of weight which then had to be pinky-pumped until they got back to a decent weight and resumed eating on their own. Out of the handful that I've had to go through this with, all of them have survived and are doing well to this day with no more starving occurences but it's still a mystery why those particular adults did this when all the others in the same environment thrived. I also had 3 babies from last year that I had to forcefeed for 6 months using small hypos and specialized feeding needles called gavage needles for baby food (because a pinky pump was too large) until they finally got established onto eating on their own and now they are eating mice on their own and growing like weeds.

While these are exceptions to the rule, never be complacent to believe that this can't happen where you allow your animal get to the point of no return. While forcefeeding is always a viable option, it's not a pleasant one and not without risks to the animals, especially in the hands of someone inexperienced at forcefeeding. Hognose are also very difficult to forcefeed as their mouth is completely different and harder to pry open than a Corn or a King. It's almost like a little fortified drawbridge.
 
Of course it's a possibility with ANY snake, but hopefully intervention would take place before it reached a dire situation... sorry I didn't phrase that so well, and actually knew you'd call me out on it. ;)
 
Of course it's a possibility with ANY snake, but hopefully intervention would take place before it reached a dire situation... sorry I didn't phrase that so well, and actually knew you'd call me out on it. ;)

Well, I only wanted to point it out because you have a female which is a completely different thing in terms of behavior than a male hognose. Females typically have very voracious appetites and will typically eat non-stop to accommodate their larger size and metabolism whereas males are significantly smaller and don't always eat as much. I just wanted to point out that it's easy to become complacent with males when they do go on their feeding strikes and not monitor them as much.

This happened to me with a group of hogs that I purchased several years ago. 2 of the 3 males went on hunger strikes during the summer which was typical but the one male never resumed eating after 4 months. I admit, I waited too long in the hopes that he would finally go back to eating but by then winter had already approached and I brumated him with the others hoping that coming out of brumation would kick start his appetite, that didn't happen either. By then he was super skinny, not deathly skinny where I could see his spine or ribs, but he had lost 50% of his weight from when I got him. I then pinky-pumped him for a couple of months until he decided that eating was a good thing and he's never missed a meal since.

I also have had a lot of problem with a Pink Pastel female of mine which would eat like a pig for 2 months then go off of food for 3-4 months. Only after pinky pumping her would she go back on food for about another 2 months only to resume going off of food again. I had to do this for almost 3 years with her until this year she finally started going on a good growth spurt and now rarely turns down food on a regular basis. Sadly, Pink Pastels can be a little more difficult to keep as well as breeding them. Some people believe that the PPA gene is kind of a weak one and that's why you don't see too many for sale out there even though the demand for them is very strong and their price has maintained for the past 4 years while all the other prices have dropped significantly.

Anyways, I just wanted people to know that hognose are a totally different snake than what they are used to keeping (namely Corns) in terms of eating and behaviors and that you still need to be vigilant in monitoring them despite their overall differences because it's easy to become complacent thinking "it's just a hognose doing weird hoggie things" and then get in a bind where you have to go to drastic measures. :)
 
Well, I only wanted to point it out because you have a female which is a completely different thing in terms of behavior than a male hognose. Females typically have very voracious appetites and will typically eat non-stop to accommodate their larger size and metabolism whereas males are significantly smaller and don't always eat as much. I just wanted to point out that it's easy to become complacent with males when they do go on their feeding strikes and not monitor them as much.

I do keep forgetting the OP's is a male, and actually had to change a "she" to a "he" while typing my post. ;) Before I got my girl, one of my friends who's experienced with hognoses warned me about male eating habits... his goes on fast EVERY year for a few months, and can sometimes be difficult to get re-started. He suggested a female for me, since I'm already dealing with picky ball pythons in my collection - like one adult female who didn't eat for 9 months. She didn't seem to mind, but it sure was stressful for me!
 
I'm already dealing with picky ball pythons in my collection - like one adult female who didn't eat for 9 months. She didn't seem to mind, but it sure was stressful for me!

Ugh, I've been there done that one too with Balls! I have a pair of Pieds and a het Pied and that het also wouldn't eat for about 6-7 months at a time for 2 years whether it was f/t or live, whether it was mice or rats, nothing! I was so darn frustrated with her that we considered just reselling her because I didn't want to risk losing her to starvation but this year she's decided that she'll now eat anything we put in her tub. The female Pied on the other hand will only eat rodents if they are live. She'll strike and squeeze f/t stuff if I wiggle it around but after she let's it go, she examines it by poking it for 5-10 minutes and if it's a f/t, she figures it out and won't eat it. She always knows the difference between a fresh and a f/t every time. Our male though has never been a problem with eating anything at all. :shrugs:
 
The majority of mine are in Sterilite tubs about the floor size of a 10 gallon. For the majority of my males, this is adequate enough space for them to cruise around in and do their thing...

Everyone measures their snakes by weight, but how long is the average male hog? I need some sort of visual aid!

You might want to consider smaller meals on a slightly more frequent basis as hognose have a completely different metabolism. I used to feed mine 1 mouse that was roughly the same size as the largest part of their girth but I found that feeding 2-3 smaller sized mice has worked much better for my males as well as some of my smaller breeder females.

Sweets is probably 6-8 weeks old, and he's a tiny guy! I gave him a pinkie, should I have just given him half? Or cut it in two to make more digestible bundles? I read that some people cut slits in the pinkies to make them easier to digest.

Also, how long after they eat will they poop? Just trying to plan my week!!

Thanks for the help. I want to go back through this thread and paste some of the questions/answers into a Word doc to keep for reference!

Theresa in Indy
 
Everyone measures their snakes by weight, but how long is the average male hog? I need some sort of visual aid!

Well, for an average adult male, I would guess about 10-14" long, 12" probably being the average although I'm just going off of the top of my head as I've never bothered with measuring for actual lengths any more. Those goofy snakes will just not sit still while I have the tape measure out. ;)

Sweets is probably 6-8 weeks old, and he's a tiny guy! I gave him a pinkie, should I have just given him half? Or cut it in two to make more digestible bundles? I read that some people cut slits in the pinkies to make them easier to digest.

He's just a baby then. If he's eating pinkies and not having any problems with eating them, then just keep him on those. I was referring more to semi-adult to adult sized hoggies. I feed all of my hatchlings the smallest whole pinky I can give them and they rarely have any problems with them. Just make sure they stay warm in the low to mid 80's and they should digest those just fine. I've heard about the cutting of slits for easier digestion but I've never done it nor have I felt a need to. The only time I have any problems is just when they don't recognize a pinky as a food source but that's an entirely different problem.

Also, how long after they eat will they poop? Just trying to plan my week!!

Well, there's too many factors involved in really guessing how long, some will take 3 days others will take a whole week. It really depends on how warm they are, how big they are in relation to their food size, their metabolism also in relation to their sex, etc... But I would say anywhere about 4-6 days on average. YMMV.

Thanks for the help. I want to go back through this thread and paste some of the questions/answers into a Word doc to keep for reference!

Theresa in Indy

Always my pleasure. :)
 
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