-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Killing mice
- Thread starter DustinWaller
- Start date
kenalotia
New member
Just a quick note on human evolution and meat-eating. I was an anthropology major at Cornell, and although I did not concentrate in the evolution/primatology area of it, I did take a few classes. So: chimpanzees, the nearest living relatives of humans, collectively hunt and eat meat. I'm not just talking about insects, but they hunt and eat small mammals, including monkeys. They are primarily herbiverous - probably because plant food is easier to obtain. But the fact that chimps do hunt and eat meat indicates that most likely our common ancestor (which occurs well before homo erectus) also hunted and ate meat on a small scale.
SilverTongue
Friend Of Gaia
CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS!CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! CORNS! 
Bippy
the Prowl
Mmm... I feel like jumping into this discussion... Nothing like beating a dead horse
I have no qualms with people being vegitarians, I also have no qualms with people going out and hunting animals in general.
I do not approve of the hunting of endangered or threatened species, though hunting species which would otherwise become overpopulated is fine with me.
What bugs me is not so much people who do any of these things, but people that are so overzealous about their beliefs on these matters that they're willing to beat you to death with their arguements (however sound or unsound they may be) in order to get you to change you rmind, because of course their way is the only right way.
That having been said, humans are indeed omnivorous. Whether you believe the bible or follow the theory of evolution, there is no evidence to suggest people started out not eating meat. In fact, there's evidence which suggests the opposite in both cases.
I have a sister who has threatened to kidnap and raise up herself any live mice I tried to bring home to feed my snakes. She's utterly disgusted with the thought that those things are in my freezer. But, so long as I don't make a big fuss about it and my feeding the snakes mice isn't brought to her attention, she ignores the issue. She doesn't go looking around for references to people prekilling mice to try and argue them out of it.
My suggestion is that if the idea bothers you, perhaps you should avoid reading threads on that topic. I'm pretty sure the title of this thread isn't cryptic.
Then, you can do whatever you like with your mice, and we'll do whatever we like with ours.
-Bippy
Nothing like beating a dead horse I have no qualms with people being vegitarians, I also have no qualms with people going out and hunting animals in general.
I do not approve of the hunting of endangered or threatened species, though hunting species which would otherwise become overpopulated is fine with me.
What bugs me is not so much people who do any of these things, but people that are so overzealous about their beliefs on these matters that they're willing to beat you to death with their arguements (however sound or unsound they may be) in order to get you to change you rmind, because of course their way is the only right way.
That having been said, humans are indeed omnivorous. Whether you believe the bible or follow the theory of evolution, there is no evidence to suggest people started out not eating meat. In fact, there's evidence which suggests the opposite in both cases.
I have a sister who has threatened to kidnap and raise up herself any live mice I tried to bring home to feed my snakes. She's utterly disgusted with the thought that those things are in my freezer. But, so long as I don't make a big fuss about it and my feeding the snakes mice isn't brought to her attention, she ignores the issue. She doesn't go looking around for references to people prekilling mice to try and argue them out of it.
My suggestion is that if the idea bothers you, perhaps you should avoid reading threads on that topic. I'm pretty sure the title of this thread isn't cryptic.
Then, you can do whatever you like with your mice, and we'll do whatever we like with ours.
-Bippy
snakemanone
New member
killing mice
Hiya all.
I place the mouse in a plastic bag,dunk the bag in water but not completely just enough to sqeeze the air out,seal the bag and freeze,the mice are dead in a matter of seconds,its quick, clean and very humane, i have a slaughtermans liscence and worked in a slaughterhouse for 3 years so i know a bit about how animals suffer believe me this is the best method i have found,apart from buying them ready frozen.
Hiya all.
I place the mouse in a plastic bag,dunk the bag in water but not completely just enough to sqeeze the air out,seal the bag and freeze,the mice are dead in a matter of seconds,its quick, clean and very humane, i have a slaughtermans liscence and worked in a slaughterhouse for 3 years so i know a bit about how animals suffer believe me this is the best method i have found,apart from buying them ready frozen.
Ken Harbart
New member
That actually is bad gekko. Freezing is a very painful and prolonged death. In humans, exposure to cold is used to test pain thresholds.
Awhile back, the AMVA convened a panel to look into various methods of euthanizing rodents that are to be used as feeders. Their findings were that gassing with high cincentrations of CO2 and cervical dislocation were the two most humane methods. It was asserted that freezing, drowning, asphyxiation, etc, are not humane.
That being said, I want to correct something that was posted earlier in this thread about the mechanism of death in CO poisoning... CO does not bond with oxygen to form CO2. That combination would yield carbonate, which is CO3. Recall if you will, that oxygen is a diatomic molecule, and is rarely found existing as a single atom.
When carbon monoxide enters the blood, it attaches to hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin. Once altered, the hemoglobin is no longer able to transport oxygen.
Carbon monoxide, such as that from a car exhaust is totally unsuitable for euthanizing feeder rodents. CO is only one of several little nasties present in car exhaust, and many toxins would be passed on to the snake.
Awhile back, the AMVA convened a panel to look into various methods of euthanizing rodents that are to be used as feeders. Their findings were that gassing with high cincentrations of CO2 and cervical dislocation were the two most humane methods. It was asserted that freezing, drowning, asphyxiation, etc, are not humane.
That being said, I want to correct something that was posted earlier in this thread about the mechanism of death in CO poisoning... CO does not bond with oxygen to form CO2. That combination would yield carbonate, which is CO3. Recall if you will, that oxygen is a diatomic molecule, and is rarely found existing as a single atom.
When carbon monoxide enters the blood, it attaches to hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin. Once altered, the hemoglobin is no longer able to transport oxygen.
Carbon monoxide, such as that from a car exhaust is totally unsuitable for euthanizing feeder rodents. CO is only one of several little nasties present in car exhaust, and many toxins would be passed on to the snake.
little twiglet
New member
just bash them over the head and be done with it!
i have no sympathy with mice!! HA HA HA HA HA
i have no sympathy with mice!! HA HA HA HA HA
My opinion is that if I had to worry about every rodent that was being eaten by every snake (wild or otherwise) I would never have time for my snakes-Everone who is going to own a snake needs to contemplate BEFORE purchase what they MUST do to keep that animal healthy-I LOVE ALL animals-mice are some very cute animals-when I was younger I used to keep one as a pet-however snakes eat mice, they also eat fish-they wiggle and squirm to get away - are we worried about them? they are living creatures no? what about the crickets I feed my chameleons? do they have fear or pain? they kick and fight to escape- where do we draw the line with our captive friends the if they were in the wild would be eating live animals (lizards frog or whatever else they could find)
So I feel there is no harm in replicating nature. For those of you that feel a little better by prekilling or buying frozen that is great. I hate to think of the terror a mouse might feel (forget the pain) when he is in the grips of a snakes jaws.
I have kept corn snakes since 1992 and usually feed live- I have tried freezing ,thumped, and prekilled frozen-
Lets face it mice are on the bottom of the food chain to be eaten. Why else would they only have 28 days gestation and pump out 10-15 babies and become sexually mature around 3 weeks (i think)
Lets get over how you or I feed our snakes and enjoy the awesome colors and patterns of the animal that brought us to this site in the beginning-we shouldn't divide ourselves by feeding methods-remember what we have in common
but thats just my opinion, I could be wrong............LOL
So I feel there is no harm in replicating nature. For those of you that feel a little better by prekilling or buying frozen that is great. I hate to think of the terror a mouse might feel (forget the pain) when he is in the grips of a snakes jaws.
I have kept corn snakes since 1992 and usually feed live- I have tried freezing ,thumped, and prekilled frozen-
Lets face it mice are on the bottom of the food chain to be eaten. Why else would they only have 28 days gestation and pump out 10-15 babies and become sexually mature around 3 weeks (i think)
Lets get over how you or I feed our snakes and enjoy the awesome colors and patterns of the animal that brought us to this site in the beginning-we shouldn't divide ourselves by feeding methods-remember what we have in common
but thats just my opinion, I could be wrong............LOL
bmm
New member
hahaha
The best part is that all of this wasted space and time writing and in the end no one learned anything about WHACKING MICE.
I cannot even believe some of you continued this ridiculous discussion. No one will EVER agree on these topics you have brought up on a CORNSNAKE forum.
And on that note, whacking mice os no worse than any other method. IF you do it correctly. It's INSTANT. Any death that is instantanous (sp) is alright in my book. Period.
Like Gregg said, whack the damn mouse and fed it to your snake.
If you are willing to keep a snake in a cage then you should be willing to whack a mouse. Period. I hope more cornsnake information will turn up here.
But I doubt it.
bmm
The best part is that all of this wasted space and time writing and in the end no one learned anything about WHACKING MICE.
I cannot even believe some of you continued this ridiculous discussion. No one will EVER agree on these topics you have brought up on a CORNSNAKE forum.
And on that note, whacking mice os no worse than any other method. IF you do it correctly. It's INSTANT. Any death that is instantanous (sp) is alright in my book. Period.
Like Gregg said, whack the damn mouse and fed it to your snake.
If you are willing to keep a snake in a cage then you should be willing to whack a mouse. Period. I hope more cornsnake information will turn up here.
But I doubt it.
bmm
snakemanone
New member
FUNERAL
can someone PLEASE bury this post we will NEVER agree and we all have our own methods
..........................STEVE
can someone PLEASE bury this post we will NEVER agree and we all have our own methods
..........................STEVE
Ken Harbart
New member
Two months later, and this thread is still alive? Just to add to it for a moment, and briefly steer it onto a different tangent...
Feeding dead prey is no less natural than feeding live prey (many wild snakes will also scavange on carrion, if the opportunity presents itself), and greatly reduces the risk of injury to the snake. Forget about the mouse for a moment- my primary concern is the well-being of my snakes. I prefer my snakes to be free of the physical scars and psychological phobias that are often the result of rodent bites. Even my cobras are fed frozen/thawed rodents, when practical, to avoid the damage from bites and reduce the transmission of parasites.
Feeding dead prey is no less natural than feeding live prey (many wild snakes will also scavange on carrion, if the opportunity presents itself), and greatly reduces the risk of injury to the snake. Forget about the mouse for a moment- my primary concern is the well-being of my snakes. I prefer my snakes to be free of the physical scars and psychological phobias that are often the result of rodent bites. Even my cobras are fed frozen/thawed rodents, when practical, to avoid the damage from bites and reduce the transmission of parasites.
*mega sigh*
GEEEZ....I just could not read through more than four pages of this. How about just Feed the dang Snake. That's right, JUST FEED IT. Let the snake starve whilst the debate rages on.....smack it, gas it, drop it off a building, drown it, freeze it, who cares. Just feed the snake. It is part of your responsibilty of caring for that snake. It is a mouse after all. What's next, human rights for flies and cockroaches? Crickets?
Personally, I think there is more of a problem with Human Rights in this world than problems with Rodent Rights. But that is another story...
GEEEZ....I just could not read through more than four pages of this. How about just Feed the dang Snake. That's right, JUST FEED IT. Let the snake starve whilst the debate rages on.....smack it, gas it, drop it off a building, drown it, freeze it, who cares. Just feed the snake. It is part of your responsibilty of caring for that snake. It is a mouse after all. What's next, human rights for flies and cockroaches? Crickets?
Personally, I think there is more of a problem with Human Rights in this world than problems with Rodent Rights. But that is another story...
Ken Harbart
New member
It can also be argued that there is a responsibility to ensure that the prey animal dies a reasonably humane death. This would eliminate freezing, drowning, or asphyxiation.
Using that same train of thought, rattlesnake roundups or the average redneck beheading a corn with a shovel can be rationalized. After all, they're just snakes, after all.
Also, it is not a matter of applying human rights to animals (for all but a leftist fringe anyways). It is a matter of animal welfare, which is an entirely different concept.
Hi. Me again.
You're first argument doesn't make sense with me. My snakes kill their "live mouse" (I'll not call a mouse thrown into the tank "prey". Prey, to me, means that it was hunted or stalked, as it (the snake) would in its own natural habitat) in all sorts of gloriously graphical ways. Constricting while underwater, eyesballs popping out, blood pouring from the mouth area, swallowing backwards, etc....
I give them their "food" the Natural way...Live. And under my close supervision. Personally I do not feel comfortable "whacking" a small mammal in a bag. But I may have to in the future. I accept that possibility. Because it would be MY FAULT if I left that rat in the tank...to chew and naw on a snake.
My statement "It is a mouse after all. What's next, human rights for flies and cockroaches? Crickets?" I back up. Anyone who ever watches the News or pays close attention to the "efficiency" of our government knows that there is a "special interest group" or "sub-commitee" for every dam thing under the sun. Rattlesnake roundup people and the wild red-necks will always be able to "rationalize" their "ways and means". Of course that doesn't mean that any rationale is moral. I'll just have to trust my own feelings. What does my heart tell me?
I do agree with you though Ken, overall. Its just that....a debate about how to feed your snake on a Cornsnake forum, well, may seem kind of silly. But its not actually. We humans each see and hear and feel diffent ways. For one member to tell another to smack the mouse in a bag is silly. Or it very well could be a better idea? Who knows....It's up to YOU and I just hope some people don't need a "movement" to help them in this decision
I'll just clarify my original point:
You have a pet snake.
It eats mice.
Feed it.
(God forbid any debate over my diet!)
You're first argument doesn't make sense with me. My snakes kill their "live mouse" (I'll not call a mouse thrown into the tank "prey". Prey, to me, means that it was hunted or stalked, as it (the snake) would in its own natural habitat) in all sorts of gloriously graphical ways. Constricting while underwater, eyesballs popping out, blood pouring from the mouth area, swallowing backwards, etc....
I give them their "food" the Natural way...Live. And under my close supervision. Personally I do not feel comfortable "whacking" a small mammal in a bag. But I may have to in the future. I accept that possibility. Because it would be MY FAULT if I left that rat in the tank...to chew and naw on a snake.
My statement "It is a mouse after all. What's next, human rights for flies and cockroaches? Crickets?" I back up. Anyone who ever watches the News or pays close attention to the "efficiency" of our government knows that there is a "special interest group" or "sub-commitee" for every dam thing under the sun. Rattlesnake roundup people and the wild red-necks will always be able to "rationalize" their "ways and means". Of course that doesn't mean that any rationale is moral. I'll just have to trust my own feelings. What does my heart tell me?
I do agree with you though Ken, overall. Its just that....a debate about how to feed your snake on a Cornsnake forum, well, may seem kind of silly. But its not actually. We humans each see and hear and feel diffent ways. For one member to tell another to smack the mouse in a bag is silly. Or it very well could be a better idea? Who knows....It's up to YOU and I just hope some people don't need a "movement" to help them in this decision
I'll just clarify my original point:
You have a pet snake.
It eats mice.
Feed it.
(God forbid any debate over my diet!)
Last edited: