Meet my new puppy!

[diamondlil]

Our first snow of the year!

 

[MegF.]

Now that looks fun!! Looks like they had a blast!

 

[kaypar2011]

Happy pups.

 

[diamondlil]

So last night I had Rosie set on Bertie whilst they were both happily chewing on bones under supervision. Rosie literally leapt on him without any obvious provocation, Bertie was laying down facing away from her about 4 feet away. I corrected her, and she growled at me after jumping on the couch. So on with a slip leash, off the sofa and both dogs into a down until they calmed down, bones taken away. Rosie put into the kitchen for a time out. Then about 10 minutes later, Bertie started stiff-tailed circling Rosie and warbling (he doesn't growl, he has an odd warbling vocalisation instead), so both dogs corrected and down, then he got a time out. When I let him in the front room again I made both dogs lay down and absolutely forbade Mick from comforting either of them. As far as I could tell the second incident was Bertie resource guarding Mick.
Today? Perfect walking to heel on every walk, free running time for both of them with great recalls, playing with a nice little pug cross bitch (my recalls must have been good today, she kept racing to me too!), no bad behaviour at all. I think when Mick comes over later they can stay in the kitchen, I fancy a night off from dog whispering!

 

[MegF.]

Janine,
Dogs don't do timeouts and they have absolutely no meaning for them. Getting calm submission in each other's space after a fight is all you need and once that happens, you walk away. Any signs of either dog showing dominance needs to be corrected and although you may not have noticed any signs of provocation, there was....Could have been nothing more than a stare. Signs can be subtle...a lifted lip, a sudden stillness in the body, a stare. It's all there, we just miss it often. At this point, I can't remember how old these guys are now and if they have been altered yet or not. the nice part is that they move on and as long as you achieved the calmn submission between them, they will continue in that vein. It's important that you get that before ever separating the dogs or they will just come back in that behavior.

 

[diamondlil]

I expect the timeout was more for my benefit, because it takes longer for me to switch state than it does for the dogs! They've calmed down and moved on while my heart is still racing.
Rosie will be 4 on Dec 21st, Bertie will be 2 in May. And yep, they are both neutered. I'd say over the last couple of weeks, maybe the last 3 they've been resource guarding more than usual. The resources include me, Mick, toys and chew bones. They both get more excitable and aroused when Mick visits, so I've gone over the basics with him again to nip the trend in the bud.

 

[Nanci]

Nice sticky about resource guarding...

 

[MegF.]

The excitement is the most important thing to control. Calm dogs don't fight. Excited dogs will. Guarding is definitely an issue and if that's the case, all objects stay off of the floor except when given by you and they need to be able to be taken back by you without difficulty. Guarding is just dominance and this it especially true of dogs that are guarding humans. That's possessiveness that should not be tolerated. Whoever is being guarded needs to correct the dog that's guarding. You might talk to your trainer about that.

 

[diamondlil]

Nice sticky about resource guarding...

I've been reading up a lot on that forum, Nanci, thanks to the link you gave me before. I should stress that neither dog guards stuff from me or from other people, it's each other the behaviour is directed at. So really the issue is keeping them low-key before any fights break out. I keep a careful watch on how they behave around each other, what I want ideally is that they will respect each other's space. Under supervision, generally they play together well, but if they get over-excited they can flash over into typical terrier fighting style, very fast and very aggressive, but with more noise and fury than actual bites.
The sessions with my trainer have certainly helped, probably because my being more assertive generally with them and giving them the mental challenge of all the new learning is giving them more positive stuff to focus on. Although they got on fairly well right from the start, Bertie generally wore teeth marks from him pushing Rosie's buttons. I'm trying to work out what triggered the reversion to their behaviour over the last couple of weeks when they had been so much better. The only thing I can think of is that they've had more short sessions off-lead to run together, everything else has been the same.

 

[diamondlil]

The excitement is the most important thing to control. Calm dogs don't fight. Excited dogs will. Guarding is definitely an issue and if that's the case, all objects stay off of the floor except when given by you and they need to be able to be taken back by you without difficulty. Guarding is just dominance and this it especially true of dogs that are guarding humans. That's possessiveness that should not be tolerated. Whoever is being guarded needs to correct the dog that's guarding. You might talk to your trainer about that.

Yep, as I said, they get excited and then flash over, especially when Mick visits. I think it may be a good idea if I can get my trainer to visit at the same time as Mick, to get him more used to how to correct them

 

[MegF.]

That would be an excellent idea Janine. It's helpful if he can see the behavior and correct it right away.

 

[diamondlil]

Good and bad behaviour this week. First good......really good recall from both dogs, meaning I can extend their free runnning time a little. Just short sessions, ending on a really good note each time, either through having some treats in my pocket or a 'toy', making use of found items like sticks or discarded sports drink bottles used like a flirt pole to make an exciting game the result of the recall. Good lead walking, respectful and with low level reactions to seagulls or squirrels. Work on the irritating jumping up behaviour, giving treats only with all 4 paws on the floor, reinforcing every time that jumping means no treats, being respectful and waiting politely means a treat. Great socialisation with strangers out at the pub, Bertie greeting confidently and politely, accepting treats and petting from total strangers.
Then the bad....my only holiday day off was Christmas Eve. So long walks with the dogs while the dinner was cooking, both free running time and leashwalk exercises to tire out bodies and minds. Then my boys arrived for the meal. And Bertie became anxious and both growled and snapped towards all 3 of them, then redirected towards Rosie when I corrected him. Of course my attention was diverted, between preparing our meal, talking to my boys and keeping a watch on the dogs. Once I had emphasised to the boys not to interact with Bertie, to ignore him, he settled down. With my eldest boy, Harry, who walks the dogs when I'm on night shifts, Bertie laid at his feet. With the other two, he growled intermittently. When Mick arrived, he backed up correcting Bertie, he'd never seen this side of him and I don't think he'd quite believed me when I'd said Berts had issues around my boys.
Once the holiday season is over I'll be seeing my trainer. I'm thinking a muzzle may be a good idea for social situations indoors, and most likely a session where the boys can be around so the trainer can see the interactions.
Again, today my eldest took the dogs out whilst I was sleeping, no problems at all with Bertie being respectful and no aggression towards him at all.

 

[MegF.]

Sounds like too many people with an insecure dog. Might have been better putting them in a quiet room while the festivities were going on. People tend to get into a dog's space when they don't want it...and that's not fair to the dog. This is one reason why I emphasize not getting a new dog for Christmas or any holiday as you rarely can devide your attention between keeping a dog out of trouble and handling friends and family. Your two are well accustomed to you and were still out of their element...you can imagine how a new dog would feel! That said, I did adopt George my wild child lab mix foster out to a nice couple this last weekend. They do not do anything special for Christmas so I agreed to allow them to take my boy. I miss him terribly but he's got a new doggy friend and doing well.

 

[diamondlil]

The way I see it, I can manage the behaviour, by keeping Berts out of the way, but what I really want is to work on his behaviour so he can be relaxed and confident. Ellie was very stranger aggressive in the home, it took consistent efforts to prove to her that her job in that situation was to lay on her bed out of the way, and relax because I was in charge of the situation, so I know Bert's won't change without work on my part. The boys did fairly well on ignoring him, but he would go over into their space then suddenly go over his threshold without any move on their part, which is why I'm thinking a muzzle would defuse the situation and make it easier for them to relax around him. The boys find it upsetting because Ellie absolutely adored them, Rosie thinks they are wonderful and they really love dogs. All they want is for him to accept them, but they certainly don't force themselves on him.

 

[MegF.]

A good basket muzzle can be helpful when introduced properly. Doesn't matter that they didn't force, the dogs were already in a stressful situation with a lot of people around. I absolutely think it's critical to continuously work them around people to improve their threshold, but doing it at the holidays with a million things going on is perhaps a little much to expect. As you said, you were busy doing other things and not able to devote 100% of your attention to the dogs (which, if you have an insecure dog showing aggression is critical). In the case where he enters into their space, you would need to move him back out of their space (claim them if you will) until Bertie feels more comfortable all the time. Then have the boys call him to them to offer a treat or something like that. If he goes over to them on his own, he's going into a space he shouldn't. In the meantime, the quickest way to get a dog to change his mind is to give all the lovin' to the other dogs that are doing acceptable behavior. Ignore Bertie, and only pet Ellie and Rosie. He will want it too....dogs are that way.

 

[diamondlil]

Ellie was my old pit mix, sadly missed, Meg. Due to the breed specific laws here I can never legally own another 'Ellie'.
The best thing about this situation is that the boys are all willing to work with me. We'll get there!

 

[MegF.]

That sucks! Hate BSL! We have some cities here that have a pitbull ban but others have none. Wish it wasn't that way...they get a bad rap because of bad owners. I'm sure you will get through it! You work with your dogs beautifully...wish half the owners here were as involved with their dogs as you are with yours.

 

[diamondlil]

Bertie gets a gold star today. I had a visit from my middle boy, his girlfriend and their 2-year old girl. With lots of supervision and support Bertie socialised for 5 minutes at a time. I broke up the sessions so he didn't get overwhelmed and so I could have some time with Nicole without worrying about Bertie all the time. He started off showing signs of nerves, then calmed down beautifully and at the end suffered a brief but very gentle hug from her with his tail wagging gently and being told what a very good dog he was. Of course I had my arms around him, holding Nicole's hand as she stroked him in the right places and was giving him constant reassurance.
I'd never trust any dog unsupervised with a child, especially not with a toddler. Rosie is fascinated by small children, but gets boisterous in wanting to play with them if I don't keep her calm and under control. I've never been quite sure that she wouldn't nip if she got the chance. As I just got the news today that I'm going to be a grandma, socialising both dogs to children has suddenly become more urgent.

 

[MegF.]

Great work Janine and congratulations on the coming grandchild!! Talk with your trainer about it now and how to properly get the dogs used to small infants. You can teach your children now about how to bring their new baby into your home and asking the dogs to give it space. The dogs should not be allowed near the baby at first and then only when they are very calm. Babies should signify calmness. There are tapes and even play dolls that make the high pitched crying and squealing that you can expect from a baby to help the dogs with as well. Teach them those sounds mean calm. I take my dogs regularly to a local park for walks around the winding track. It's one mile long and goes by tennis courts, soccer fields, skateboard park and of course, the play area for children. Once we've had a long walk I bring the dogs over to the kids area to watch the kids and listen to their sounds. If a child asks if they can pet the dogs, I have the dog come up to the child while they stand still without looking at the dog...I tell the child I'm teaching the dog how to respect them...kids love to "help". Once the dogs have sniffed them, they may pet the dogs and often they walk them around the sand area on leash. It's terribly cute seeing a 4 year old walking a ridgeback that's the same height as their head. They always feel so powerful when they can control a dog that large!

 

[diamondlil]

The main strides forwards have been the 'all four paws on the floor' rules sinking in. Of course at this stage both dogs still get excited and forget, but a very slight correction reminds them and Bertie is offering 'sit' and really working hard at being good