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Missing person : Betsy (username: "wstphal")

Yep. At the time, I was speechless (for once). LOL.

I felt like somebody had slapped me across the face. Hard.
 
At risk of being highly criticized, I'm going to say that even though this "missing person" effort is being done with good intentions, it almost feels like cyber-stalking. I understand people's concern about her, but apparently she has made it clear that she wants to be left alone. It seems to me, based on what I read in the attached DYK posts, that the only person (or people) who have any need to make contact with her is/are directly involved in the return of any snakes. If I had made a choice to suddenly leave CS.com the last thing I would want is to be thrown into the public eye and bandied about, especially after requesting that my privacy be respected. Its unfortunate that she's decided to withdraw from all contact, to the possible detriment of friendships and legal action if things go badly with the breeding loan. I think we should let this drop. Feel free to bash me for my opinion.
 
It has all been very confusing. We have definitely not been idle regarding this. A lot was going on behind closed doors, and Eric made a good decision in mentioning her as someone MIA.

She currently has six of my snakes, two of which that are very dear to me. It has not been easy for me to deal with this, but considering I am half way across the country there is not much for me to do. Just hope that one day they will be returned to me, healthy.
 
IMO her approach to the situation has not been the best. All she had to say (nicely) was that she needed space. Instead, she has said she wants nothing more to do with us, and is ignoring all contact with those she had arrangements with. Cause for concern, yes.
 
dionythicus said:
At risk of being highly criticized, I'm going to say that even though this "missing person" effort is being done with good intentions, it almost feels like cyber-stalking. I understand people's concern about her, but apparently she has made it clear that she wants to be left alone. It seems to me, based on what I read in the attached DYK posts, that the only person (or people) who have any need to make contact with her is/are directly involved in the return of any snakes. If I had made a choice to suddenly leave CS.com the last thing I would want is to be thrown into the public eye and bandied about, especially after requesting that my privacy be respected. Its unfortunate that she's decided to withdraw from all contact, to the possible detriment of friendships and legal action if things go badly with the breeding loan. I think we should let this drop. Feel free to bash me for my opinion.
Click to expand...
Dionythicus, I will not bash you one bit. Your whole post has haunted my mind for months. And even more so for the last couple of days.
Your rightness of perspective and correctness in point of view...troubles me intensely.

If she had not actively, persistently, and aggressively to the Nth degree courted our friendships and endearments in the forum and at Daytona 2010...it would be easier to take the slap across the face and walk away. (It will certainly be easier for me than for others.)
First, she cajoled and endeared herself and took home a payload of loaned snakes. Then, she "decided to withdraw from all contact" and "requested that her privacy be respected". Although, she was not so poetic or bound to social etiquette in her 'form' in going about it,...as your wording implies she was.
This is not logical nor typically the order in which one withdraws into an introverted hermitlike existence. (Not that there is anything wrong with an introverted hermitlike existence.)
But I have attempted to initiate a dialogue, acted above board as I gave proof in post #19, and I can say I was sincere and forthright.
However, I cannot say the same about her.

I will step back and let the ones owed snakes and/or money resume their efforts in their own time and in their own manner.

I did start this thread with good intentions, and I did link it (at post #1) to the appropriate place in fauna : The "Bureau of Missing Persons".
A forum with many similar threads that exists for the purpose of locating "missing persons" in the herp community.
So rather than being thought of as having engaged in cyber-stalking anyone, I have tried to use the tools of protocol provided....to do what many others have done in that forum.
 
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Eric, I appreciate your honesty and commitment to mending this broken fence. I'm concerned that from a legal standpoint, you could get in trouble for posting all her personal information on Fauna. Yes, it's public information, but it could easily be misconstrued as stalking if she chose to pursue it. I sincerely hope she's alright, but I am also worried about you.
 
From the standpoint of being someone who's had a snake disappear in a breeding loan, I understand the concern and frustration of those who have loaned out snakes to her. The manner with which she's withdrawn herself from contact with these people is strange at best :shrugs:
 
dionythicus said:
Eric, I appreciate your honesty and commitment to mending this broken fence. I'm concerned that from a legal standpoint, you could get in trouble for posting all her personal information on Fauna. Yes, it's public information, but it could easily be misconstrued as stalking if she chose to pursue it. I sincerely hope she's alright, but I am also worried about you.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I appreciate that. More sincerely than you know, without getting all sappy.
And I am sick (at heart and in my gut) about all of this.
Do you think I should amend that fauna entry?
 
vetusvates said:
Thank you. I appreciate that. More sincerely than you know, without getting all sappy.
And I am sick (at heart and in my gut) about all of this.
Do you think I should amend that fauna entry?
Click to expand...

Personally- no.

If she is fine, she should respond to the rightful owners of the snakes.
 
I do think so. At this point she's not a missing person to the police, so she's not a missing person with regard to anyone needing to locate her to make sure she's safe and alive. Her contact information can be found by anyone with an interest in communicating with her. As much as I know it hurts you, I think you need to let it go. It appears that she isn't the person you thought she was and she may be worse than that. Maybe she's not, but this is on her to make good with her decisions and actions. I don't like to see you hurting yourself. Sadly, anyone can turn on you and sometimes they are the ones you least suspect. Protect yourself.
 
So let me get this straight. She joined the forums in Oct 2009 and people lent her snakes the first time they met her in summer 2010? Wow. You guys are a trusting bunch.

I think you should amend the fauna post. I'm with dionythicus. Given that she doesn't have any of your livestock, it seems "off." Like you care more than is reasonable.

I had no idea about any of this bc I can't handle DYK--too all over the place for me to keep up--but if I had, I would have expressed that sentiment before.

(Edited after reading other posts to add: I think you can leave the post up, but all the many addresses are unnecessary. One would do, just to indicate which Wstphal you might be looking for. So many seems odd.)
 
Thank you, Kathy. I am not so special nor so sure of myself that I will turn away from sound advice from a friend. And I think it is sincere, and I will follow it.

Who was it?...Thomas Edison?...George W. Bush?...who said,..."You don't have to be smart, just surround yourself with smart people."
Anyone feel free to correct the quote.
 
So, she gets your stuff, decides she doesn't want anything to do with you and that's that?

Ummmm, y'all be doin things a tad different than I would.

She's not your friend. Not now. Basically she's a thief. Tell me why anyone should be worrying about making things tough for her?

I haven't read the thread on fauna but if she truly has anyone's snakes that do not belong to her I would not be worried about anyone coming after you for anything.

I don't mean this to Eric in particular, but to all who have been robbed.
 
Thanks for posting wilomn.
Your breakdown is pretty concise and accurate. :laugh:

And for the record, she doesn't owe me any money or have any of my snakes.

Although, she liked grey snakes, and I almost gave her one of mine, which would have been a no strings attached affair,...but the opportunity never presented itself. Just didn't feel like the stars were aligned quite right.
 
I have now read the thread on fauna.

You can't be a nicer guy than you've been Eric.

Right now she's a thief. Right now she should be treated as one. You've tried to be nice, the collective you, and that got you guys where? Missing treasured animals is as far as I can see.

Take the gloves off. What SHE want's isn't important.

Now if she's had a mental breakdown or started taking drugs or something she's still a thief, but perhaps deserving of some sort of compassion. Short of that, she's fair game.
 
So, this summer is when she is supposed to return the snakes that she borrowed?
If so, I would wait on calling her a thief. If by the time set by the contract, the snakes are not turned over to the rightful owners, there should be law enforcement involved.

I am not attached to the situation in any way, I do my best not to get too attached to anyone on the internet, even though I do tend to make lasting friendships everywhere I go. I believe that I should be able to trust people, but I know that there are many out there that I cannot trust. I just hope that she sticks to the allotted time that she is allowed to hold the animals, and then turn them back over to their rightful owners.
I hope everything works out for the people that she owes.
 
I've seen good intentions cause the ruin of someone's life. The law can be turned against those who mean well. I've also been involved in a breeding loan that went sour. It took the threat of legal action to bring about solution.
 
Thanks again, Kathy. :D ;)

For the record, wilomn, what you would have by now read on fauna is the amended and shortened version, with all the (public record) personal stats removed. Although, the words left there now were there in the original posting,...only the personal data has been removed.
 
If you Google the lady's name and location you'll find her various addresses and contact details already in the public domain, with very little effort on the searcher's part. I doubt there could have been any repercussions to collating them and posting them in another public place.

Good luck to all who have snakes with her. And also good luck to the lady herself, who - for whatever reason - appears to be getting herself in a worse position by the day. Sadly this is one of those situations that will just escalate until she decides that she's able to do something about it. Effectively ignoring it is only ever going to make it worse. A sad situation all round.
 
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