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PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!

ghosthousecorns said:
I had a feeling something was going on. My pairings that the target morph was hypo cinder, have yielded male hypo cinders and female hypos. Now that I really think about it the only female cinders I have hatched were from het cinder x het cinder pairings.
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Hey Jen,
WELCOME to the club !!!...............LOL

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
OK I may have spoken too soon, it looks like the male that fathered the other female cinder snakes I have was actually homo cinder and bred to het cinder females?
The same cinder male which came from serpenco has fathered females, with a couple different snakes- one being the same miami het cinder female and the others being hypo het cinder females (which happened to be sisters and were fathered by a serpenco het cinder male- the same one that was dad to the other cinder female aI mentioned in first thread.)
My hypo cinder male has only fathered male cinders. I wonder if the combo of more than one morph gene plays into this?
 
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You say the two het cinder females were sired by a het cinder male...was their mother het cinder or homo cinder?
 
Walter I actually do have a female cinder snake that came from you, she was part of a little lot of non feeders you sold me a few years back. Could have bred this year but I decided not to produce many corns this year. I held onto her because of her unusual lack of any red coloration...
 
The moms were het cinder, all the cinders I have ever produced have come from het moms.
I got into cinders by buying a het male from serpenco. This was back when the gene was brand new. I bred this male to 4 snakes and held back a ton of the babies to try and make cinders on a low budget. I bought a homo cinder male from serpenco after the price had gotten more affordable and bred him to the same females the original male had fathered. When you're poor you make do with hets ;)
 
Ok what I would need is info about each pairing and whether the cinder offspring were all female, all male, or a mix. Assigning a number to each dame would help. You are by no means obligated to do this but it's the only way my brain can figure out what is happening :)
 
ghosthousecorns said:
Walter I actually do have a female cinder snake that came from you, she was part of a little lot of non feeders you sold me a few years back. Could have bred this year but I decided not to produce many corns this year. I held onto her because of her unusual lack of any red coloration...
Click to expand...

HOLY CRAP :headbang:

I'm guessing since it was a group of non-feeders, I didn't have ID's attached to each right ??

Would it happen to be Zebra ??

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
I'll try! I might take a little while though since I have to look around my house, but if the info helps to solve the mystery- the thing is I will have to find my notebook I had the sexes written down in. I am relying on looking at my iherp and website for this info, but I don't have notes on either place for what every single baby was from every single clutch.
I do distinctly remember going WTF last year when my hypo cinder male bred for the first time to a hypo het cinder female, all cinders and hypo cinder were male and all hypos were female. There were a lot more hypos than cinder and I remember thinking what a female heavy clutch it was and too bad all the cinders were male.
 
I am assuming that some of your het cinder females will throw male cinders and other het female cinders may throw female cinders. But a female het cinder that throws males shouldn't suddenly start throwing females. I'd expect that each het cinder dame would consistently throw one or the other, except for the occasional deviation due to crossover (and possible incorrect sexing of a snake here and there!)
 
Yes Zebra is the one! She is looking good except she has the typical "pear shape" of the old school cinders- Not skinny, but triangular anyhow. And she requires live mice or f/t that don't have any fur (peach fuzzy or smaller)
 
I have 95% confidence in my idea, but you are giving me what I am missing, which is het cinder females producing female cinder offspring when bred to a het cinder or cinder male. These female makers should have a dame who is het cinder or homo cinder. If the mother to the female makers is het cinder, I expect her mother to be het cinder or homo cinder...tracing through the maternal line we should eventually reach a homo cinder female. Alternatively, a crossover could have put the cinder allele on her W chromosome instead of her Z chromosome.
 
ghosthousecorns said:
Yes Zebra is the one! She is looking good except she has the typical "pear shape" of the old school cinders- Not skinny, but triangular anyhow. And she requires live mice or f/t that don't have any fur (peach fuzzy or smaller)
Click to expand...

Gottcha. After looking at your Iherp page, I noticed that was the only female Cinder you had.

I didn't send an ID for her right ??

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
DuxorW said:
I have 95% confidence in my idea
Click to expand...

I second that. It just makes WAY to much sense for what a few of us (that have noticed and said something) are and have been seeing in our breedings.

I'm willing to bet as more peole read this, there will be more coming forward that are getting the same results.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Yeah, it just gets hard to interpret when the female het cinder is throwing males, but her mother is het cinder. I'd assume that her mother had the cinder allele on her W chromosome, so the grandmother must be het cinder (on W) or homo cinder...if het cinder the great grandma should be het or homo, you get the idea. But the mother of the het female could have had the cinder allele on her Z chromosome, and during meiosis it would have crossed over to the W chromosome and passed to the daughter, creating a female maker. In an ideal world, we'd have some more simple examples where the het cinder female is throwing females, and her mother was homo cinder.
 
So, for 2012, I had 3 cinder x het cinder pairings.
First one (from the Huddleston miami girl) had female cinders and male and female miamis.
Another pairing the same year, same male different (hypo het cinder) female, all male cinders, all female non cinders.
One more pairing, same cinder male, different (hypo het cinder) female, all male cinders, all female non cinders.
 
Gotcha. So the miami het cinder has the cinder mutation on her W chromosome, and both hypo het cinders have it on their Z chromosome. The hypo allele is not sex-linked so its presence shouldn't affect the results. Would the hypo het cinders happen to be sisters?
 
I thought I was going crazy last year. I got a pair of peppermints some years ago from Carol and bred them last year and got all males out 10 eggs. It still could have been a weird year them only produced 2 females out of 27 eggs that were non-cinder morph pairings.

I did a repeat peppermint pairing this year but I also put in a male tessera with her. That clutch will be hatching in another 20 days or so. I'll give the m/f ratio once/if any peppermints hatch out.
 
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