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Poss new piebald corn

First let me say it's a very cool looking snake. I hope it proves out to be more than a fluke. Then I have a request. In your after shed pics, in the second photo there looks like there is a kink just to the front of the white area. It could just be the photo angle but could you run your finger down the spine and check? I'm curious because I always worry about genetic deformities linked with morphs. I would be devastated if this turned out to be a recessive gene with kinks as a side effect. Fingers crossed.
Congrats!:cheers:
Terri
 
Is he kinked?
Something doesn't look quite right right in front of the white (I hope it just the angle in the picture :) ). It would be wicked if it was a true pied, but if it is kinked I dunno if I'd keep it even to prove it out. I don't think that the base of a new morph being kinked is too great of any idea.
 
I would suspect a defect in the development caused that white-out area. The reason I am suggesting this is because I had something rather similar hatch out this year myself. Got an Amber with a translucent section of the body, which I suspect will turn white later on. In the pics you can see a rather obvious flaw in the scalation and skin right on top of the spine where this translucent area is located.

If memory serves we well, I believe Tim Rainwater hatched out something similar years ago that had the same sort of appearance and also appeared to be related to a developmental flaw of the spine.

Not to say I wouldn't hold onto any animal looking like that, though, since it would be intriguing to have it controlled by a recessive trait, and hopefully able to be separated from any overt spinal flaws.

white_defect01.jpg


white_defect02.jpg
 
Interesting! Not only is there a white patch, but also, the color next to the white looks more like a hypo than a normal. Other possibilities include a paradox or a chimera. Let's just hope it eats.
 
How big was the clutch? Any others that even had the smallest of pied markings? Here's hoping its genetic, but some how I just imagine it being a fluke, though I hope I'm wrong.
 
Rich, was the egg that the amber hatched out of normal? This guy's egg outwardly appeared normal, no fungus, no heat fluctuations. You have hatched thousands of cornsnakes, and I have hatched hundreds and had a few birth defects, but never had it effect color so blatantly, besides your amber have you had anything like it? But I am hesitant about it being a true genetic piebald. There is a small kink above piebald patch, but so far it hasn't seemed to effect him. Hopefully he will eat, grow to adulthood and not pass on any defective physical genetics, just the good stuff. I will keep you all posted!!
 
mobiusreptiles said:
Rich, was the egg that the amber hatched out of normal? This guy's egg outwardly appeared normal, no fungus, no heat fluctuations. You have hatched thousands of cornsnakes, and I have hatched hundreds and had a few birth defects, but never had it effect color so blatantly, besides your amber have you had anything like it? But I am hesitant about it being a true genetic piebald. There is a small kink above piebald patch, but so far it hasn't seemed to effect him. Hopefully he will eat, grow to adulthood and not pass on any defective physical genetics, just the good stuff. I will keep you all posted!!
Click to expand...

Heck, I don't know about the egg itself. Been a long time since I could watch a clutch that closely. During hatching season, it's all I can do to check on a clutch to see IF it has hatched yet, much less check on them periodically.

Never really had anything else like it hatch out. It (can't remember what sex it is) feeds normally and acts pretty normal, but I can tell there are problems with the spine around that translucent patch. Obviously the back right above that area has a problem as well.

Heck, I'll have to remember to check the sex of it next time I get to it in the feeding schedule. If it is the opposite sex from yours and you want it for a breeding project, you would be welcome to it. I'm not intending to start up a new project with it myself and only kept it since it was an odd looking critter. If something genetic can be produced from it, I would just appreciate getting a few sometime down the road.
 
Very interesting! Too bad about the kink, with it being so close to the area with the color variation, I would think it's related to a 'problem' as well. I'd definitely keep it though to see! What a great morph that would be if we were wrong!! Can you imagine that mixed into other color morphs as well? Awesome..
 
You are awesome Rich! :D

I've already gotten fuzzy on my embryology, but from looking at the snakes/deformities it seems there might be more "hope" for mobiusreptiles's snake's kink being unrelated to pigmentation...
Rich's snake almost looks like there was some trouble with neural tube fusion - initially in development (of humans anyway) the spine is open, then fuses starting in the center. Although in humans, the head and tail fuses last and this is where problems with incomplete fusion (spina bifida) usually show up.
Neural Crest cells come from this neural fold, and migrate out as the neural crest undergoes fusion. One type of cell that forms from this "4th germ line" are pigment cells! (they also form a lot of the peripheral nervous system)

So blah blah blah, I could see Rich's snake's "piebaldism" as directly related to some confused neural crest cells/problems with neural tube fusion. I'm not so sure what causes kinking, but the kink on mobiusreptiles's snake is outside the region of depigmentation, and I don't see any obvious spinal abnormalities in that region, so it seems more likely the "piebalding" could be separate from the spinal deformities. To me, anyway :p
 
wow silvergin, helpoful to have someone with that sort of knowledge around here!

That is one cool looking snake! It would be great if the kink was unrelated, fingers crossed! I'm just thinking about all the possible problem hatchlings you could hatch out in the mean time, before proving that. Not to say you shouldn't try if this guy does well.
 
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mobiusreptiles said:
The clutch size was 12 from a first year female. Guess who's corn collection just increased!

Ken
Victor
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, yeah, that's too small of a clutch to see if it could be simple recessive. With a larger clutch of 20 or so, you'd expect to see another or two if it was genetic. I'd definitely plan on doing the same pairing next year and see if anything similar happens, and in the mean time, I'd probably hold the entire clutch back just in case...
 
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