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Scale less Corns anyone?

Every time someone purchases a scaleless hybrid, Jesus feeds an exceptionally cute kitten to his Burmese. Just something to think about...
 
Roy Munson said:
Every time someone purchases a scaleless hybrid, Jesus feeds an exceptionally cute kitten to his Burmese. Just something to think about...
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LMAO! I am not going to buy one so that Burm is going to be hungry as far as I'm concerned.

Wouldn't He have to prekill them?
 
Every time this thread hits rock bottom, it turns great again!
 
It upset me rather a lot. Why would you breed an animal with a quite disturbing defect...
001.jpg

He looked rather upset he had no scales. He's a nudist snake...
 
In that vein, why are pugs and persians bred? Or ridgebacks when it's actually a form of spina bifida? At least the scaless snake can breathe normally. :/
 
Does that make it right though?
And if im honest, I think breeding Bracycephalic dogs is also cruel, i'm sorry I just feel there is a line.. And these scalelesses do cross my line...And I dont think I personally could ever be 100% cert that there isnt some sorta detriment to the snake somewhere..

Sorry to come across opinionated, and I thought long and hard about how ethical it is after seeing it in the flesh and taking that pic, and this was my conclusion. I'm not having a dig, just my thoughts on the matter =]
 
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There is really no right or wrong in this discussion. There are simply opinions, personal aesthetic preferences and matters of degree to consider. Scaleless snakes have been around for a long time. This ongoing debate is interesting every time it resurfaces but it boils down to one simple statement

Like em?...buy em

Don't like em?...pass.

Personally I find the intergrade status more objectionable that the scaleless gene. For those interested, I handled one of Dr. Bechtel's scaleless Texas rats a long while back. It felt remarkably similar to a day old Boa Constrictor. Sort of like satin.
 
That's not true, suncoast. In the case of animals being bred with severe and debilitating deformities, if you buy them, you're supporting the wrong full breeding of pets. If you pass them up and just keep your mouth shut, they kept getting bred with health problems and die. I am very outspoken about responsible animal breeding. Not only does that have to do with how many animals you breed and if you can find good homes for them, but it has to do with the health of the animals you breed.

I don't have any proof, but I suspect that a scaless snake or reptile in general is going to have issues. It will get hurt very easily, possibly dehydrate, have some unknown internal problems associated with the lack of scales ect. Until I find evidence to the contrary, I am very against breeding them.
 
Shiari said:
In that vein, why are pugs and persians bred? Or ridgebacks when it's actually a form of spina bifida? At least the scaless snake can breathe normally. :/
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Shiari, I agree with you about the short muzzled cats & dogs! I did not know that about ridgebacks, the ones I have seen were vigorous & active & did not seem to have any health problems based on behavior.

I do have concerns about scaleless snakes. I would not buy one, for that reason, same as I won't buy a very short muzzled dog or cat. So called "open faced" Persians are not esteemed in the cat show world but seem pretty healthy, so I would consider them. A long muzzled, ie, "ugly" pug, would also be acceptable to me. But no short muzzled carnivores and no scaleless snakes!
 
I don't know how I feel about naked snakes, but my initial reaction wasn't a good one. :/

How much do they usually cost?
 
VickyChaiTea said:
That's not true, suncoast. In the case of animals being bred with severe and debilitating deformities, if you buy them, you're supporting the wrong full breeding of pets. If you pass them up and just keep your mouth shut, they kept getting bred with health problems and die. I am very outspoken about responsible animal breeding. Not only does that have to do with how many animals you breed and if you can find good homes for them, but it has to do with the health of the animals you breed.

I don't have any proof, but I suspect that a scaless snake or reptile in general is going to have issues. It will get hurt very easily, possibly dehydrate, have some unknown internal problems associated with the lack of scales ect. Until I find evidence to the contrary, I am very against breeding them.
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A couple of questions Vicky...what morphs do you work with?

In the case of animals being bred with severe and debilitating deformities, if you buy them, you're supporting the wrong full breeding of pets.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Do you have any hard observational evidence that the scaleless trait is a severe and debilitating deformity? Oh wait...you have already answered that.


I don't have any proof
Click to expand...

I suspect that a scaless snake or reptile in general is going to have issues. It will get hurt very easily, possibly dehydrate, have some unknown internal problems associated with the lack of scales ect.
Click to expand...


And I, from personal examination of a fair number of specimens suspect the exact opposite. My opinion is based on direct evidence. Yours is based on an emotional reaction. Whose should carry more weight, emotion aside?

Until I find evidence to the contrary, I am very against breeding them.
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So those working with this morph are required to prove that there is no genetic weakness to the gene? You realize that proving a negative is not possible? It is up to those who don't care for this morph to offer evidence that there IS some inherent genetic problem. That's how it is done scientifically.


I don't mean this to be an attack Vicky but this debate is always cluttered by emotion. To a lesser level, those that believe anything but a naturally occurring morph is a no no are reacting just as illogically. Amels have weaker vision. Lavenders are prone to kinking, Sunkissed have that annoying Stargazing thing, Spider Balls wobble etc...etc...



Personally, intergrades and hybrids are a problem to me. That is quite often difficult to see. Scaleless is right out there. Again,...not right or wrong....just a personal preference.
 
Rhodesian ridgeback dogs are called "ridgeback" because of a cowlick that runs up their HAIR COAT. A dog with spina-bifidia couldn't walk!

Devon
 
Actually, after askin my mum ( in my opinion one of the best vet nurses in the uk but I'm biased) she said tht a dog with spina bifida could walk depending on the severity of the case... This is also true of humans. I have spina bifida and Im a figure skater lol.. I suffer frm mild back pain and that's it ...
 
Okay I was stupid and didn't think my response thru before typing. ( Its 5:30 A.M. when I posted ) What I meant was the ridge in "Ridgeback" is a cowlick in the haircoat. Its not in the skeleton. I never meant it as a slight against people with spina bifidia and I SINCERELY apologize to everyone who took it that way.

Devon
 
I like the scaleless corns (and texas rats). I've talked directly with multiple scaleless TX Rats breeders and Brian B of BHB about the scaleless corns. Everyone gives me the same answers- they ALL shed fine.... they all EAT fine... they all stay hydrated... they are JUST like "normal" corns except missing MOST of their scales.

Scaleless corns and ratsnakes RETAIN their ventral scales- so there's no movement issues.

If you read the scaleless cornsnake history, you'll find out that there is a bit of emoryi blood in them (so technically they are Scaleless Creamscile Corns).

Currently with the cost of Scaleless Corns (due their their extreme rarity) is prohibitively high for most hobbyists. As their price comes down in reach of most- and more and more FACTUAL info is spread throughout the hobby- I believe most people's opinions will change.
 
There is obviously ways to breed Ridgebacks properly without spinal issues, just like there are ways to prevent the breeding of Hip Dysplasia in Labs and German Shepherds, Deafness in Dalmatians, Stargazing Corns, and the 100's of problems in English Bulldogs. It's up to breeders to be responsible for the health and soundness of their animals, and to do any known tests or evaluations to prove it (just like many of the responsible breeders here that test out their Sunkissed corns BEFORE breeding them for production).

I'll admit that my gut reaction to naked corns isn't a positive one, but I don't really have a reason to support my reaction right now. I think that once they are actually made a bit more common, it will become clear if being scaleless is a disability. For now, it's mostly just a freakish curiosity.
 
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