• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Scale less Corns anyone?

lajes said:
sry vima only the fact i´m german doenst means that i don´t understand your language or the term mutation but for me a scaleless corns is a line bred thing nothing else.
and i do understand everythin very well don´t worry!!!!
Click to expand...

Please go read the very first post of this thread. It's a recessive mutation.
Not line bred.
 
What do you mean, "for you" it's a line bred thing?

It's different for you that for everybody else in the world, huh?
 
lajes said:
sry vima only the fact i´m german doenst means that i don´t understand your language or the term mutation but for me a scaleless corns is a line bred thing nothing else.
and i do understand everythin very well don´t worry!!!!
Click to expand...

A line breed thing is something that is developed over many generations. It is not something that is a simple on/off type situation. There are no quasi-scaleless. There are either scaleless or not scaleless rootbeer corns. The simple fact is that the scaleless mutation is just that a simple mutation. it can be breed to a "normal" corn and then be recovered in the subsequent F2 generation. That cannot be done with something that is line breed.
 
the fact i maen is that they are hybrids and were bred on havin no scales an
for sure itßs no spontanly thing i know from very well sources!!!
 
lajes said:
sry vima only the fact i´m german doenst means that i don´t understand your language or the term mutation but for me a scaleless corns is a line bred thing nothing else.
and i do understand everythin very well don´t worry!!!!
Click to expand...

no it is a mutation , now if you want to improve the look then that would be line bred as with sunglow, candy cane, reverse okeetee. These are all line bred amel corns, amel being the mutation and sunglow, candy cane, reverse okeetee the line bred type of amel . Now the scaless was not lined bred to have smaller and smaller scales until there was none that would be line bred yes it is a hybrid because it was crossed with emoryi . If you want to get technical it is a intergrade not a hybrid
 
lajes said:
the fact i maen is that they are hybrids and were bred on havin no scales an
for sure itßs no spontanly thing i know from very well sources!!!
Click to expand...

Ok, so if I purposely breed my two snakes to make golddusts, it's not a "mutation" anymore? It's line bred?
 
Sorry for the double posts... I'll have to invest in a shiny thing of these days.

The mutation that causes snakes to be born sans scales is a single allele, recessive trait. Period. Regardless of how or why they are bred. Same as the vast majority of morphs. Simple recessive mutation.
 
Emily1188 said:
Ok, so if I purposely breed my two snakes to make golddusts, it's not a "mutation" anymore? It's line bred?
Click to expand...

well it is a double mutation (caramel and ultra ) and if you line bred for the tone of color or pattern then it would be a line bred double mutation. the fact no matter how you alter it with out adding any other mutations in the line it will always be a double mutation
 
Vinman said:
well it is a double mutation (caramel and ultra ) and if you line bred for the tone of color or pattern then it would be a line bred double mutation. the fact no matter how you alter it with out adding any other mutations in the line it will always be a double mutation
Click to expand...

I know Vin, I was asking to try and point out the enormous flaw in lajes's thinking. :eek:
 
lajes said:
what do you call a mutation?
For me a mutation means a spontanly apearin morph or color
n stuff but scale less is a hybrid breedin with a goal producin
a scale less snake but imo it´s not an mutation!
Click to expand...
Breeding my two normal het amber bloodred motley snakes is "breeding with a goal to produce animals that cannot produce normal melanin, normal erythrin and normal patterning."

Does that mean that the offspring are line bred, and not the result of a combination of recessive mutations? No. It just means that I'm breeding a pair with four recessive mutations in heterozygous form to produce those recessive mutations in homozygous form.

lajes said:
the fact i maen is that they are hybrids and were bred on havin no scales an
for sure itßs no spontanly thing i know from very well sources!!!
Click to expand...
The first offspring was a surprise mutant from a planned "rootbeer" breeding.

The other scaleless offspring from that pair were produced as part of a Rootbeer project, and the fact that they ALSO happened to be scaleless was a bonus. It's still a recessive mutation, and since it was reproduced in a second clutch, it's obvious that Mum and Dad were both heterozygous for it, just the same as my corns are heterozygous for a pattern deformity.

Now, if people started breeding scaleless to scaleless to develop a totally different phenotype - different proportions, larger heads, whatever - THEN the recessive mutation would be being linebred to produce something new.
 
I have some pics of scaleless corns from the fair in Hamm last March. I don't remember the vendor, but he said it was ok to take some pics, so here they are. I think it is weird and I don't wont them in my collection, but I also find them fascinating.

Greets Tania
 

Attachments

  • scaleless verkleind1.JPG
    scaleless verkleind1.JPG
    104.7 KB · Views: 118
  • scaleless verkleind2.JPG
    scaleless verkleind2.JPG
    108.4 KB · Views: 118
Tania said:
I have some pics of scaleless corns from the fair in Hamm last March. I don't remember the vendor, but he said it was ok to take some pics, so here they are. I think it is weird and I don't wont them in my collection, but I also find them fascinating.

Greets Tania
Click to expand...

Despite the fact that that is a hybrid, that thing is stinking cool looking. Almost makes me wish I had one.
 
Remember people, everyone is intiled to their opinion. I happen to like it very much, some will hate it . That is the beauty of life , some will look at a glass of water and say it is 1/2 full and some will say it is 1/2 empty. Lest not argue if it is right or wrong it is not going anywhere. lets agree to disagree
 
I like it too. It has a cartoonish look to it, or maybe 'airbrushed' or painted look. I'd love to see it in other morphs..
 
My concern is whether the snake is in pain, as others have commented on. Fitness in the wild doesn't worry me, I don't think a Blizzard is likely to be a survivor in the wild either (although Rich Z is likely to find out what morphs can successfully adapt!). But I wouldn't intentionally create or keep an animal that is in pain while going about day to day life in my vivarium.

They are very cool looking, however, and I would like to know what, exactly, the gene is & whether it makes any other changes in the snake's biology. Just don't think I'd want to own one.
 
wstphal said:
My concern is whether the snake is in pain
Click to expand...
Why would it be in pain?

It's not missing *skin*.

It's missing scales - that's like a human who's missing hair. A shaved scalp doesn't "hurt" although you might not want to scrape the top of your head across a rough and splintery branch. I wouldn't scrape my (distinctly hairy) top of my head against that branch either, though! If cage furniture is too sharp for you to rub your fingertips across it comfortably, it probably shouldn't be in your snake's viv.... I have a perfectly scaly snake who managed to scrape the side of his head behind the eye and make himself bleed because there was a jagged spot on one of his rocks that I missed. Having no scales would probably have made that injury worse... but it shouldn't have happened *at all*.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top