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Scale less Corns anyone?

BT41042 said:
Scale less Corn anyone? I’ve been lurking here for a year or so and have never posted but I thought maybe some of you guys and gals might find this project interesting...Brian Barczyk (BHB Enterprises) let me in on this new and exciting mutation at the absolute ground floor – The Scale less Corn...The pics are of a normal Corn – Can you imagine a Bloodred or Butter or maybe a Lavender? How about a Striped Snow or Sunglow Motley? Absolutely endless...The best thing about the mutation is that it’s recessive...They are awesome – The eat fine – shed fine and reproduce fine...I’m really stoked about the combos to be made with these guys...
BT

Scaleless.jpg

Scaleless2.jpg

Scaleless3.jpg
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WOW!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
Kanchii said:
:angry01: Come over here and say that, buddy.
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My post was a joke. I'll take your post as a joke too. If I was to take your post seriously, I'd have to ban you for threatening another member. Relax, kid.

Edited to add: I just looked at this member's profile. I was threatened by a pretty young woman! Unfortunately, I can't say it's the first time. :grin01:
 
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I too will not say I like it or don't, part of me does, part doesn't. I do have to ask WHY? What are the benefits to a scaleless snake? Please don't refer me to a radio program either, just a brief reason.
 
I don't like the idea of propogating these things either, but I can't quite put my finger on the reason. But to play devil's advocate, some of the other mutations that we propogate in captive corns would be to their detriment in the wild. Amelanism is the biggest one I can think of, and it's the most widespread. What are the benefits of an amelanistic snake? If scaleless can be kept without incident in captivity, then why not?
 
I think they look really cool. And as long as there are no health problems with them and they are comfortable then its not really cruel. I do see why people would be upset, but I also see that it might not be as bad as people think either. I think we need more info. It would be nice if the breeder would come here and educate us on what he has. I have dial up so I don't think I would be able to listen to the radio show well.. And we are a group that likes to ask questions :) Ask if he would come and talk to us .
 
Eriathiel said:
I'm a little shocked at the number of people saying how cruel it is - for all we know because the snake doesn't have scales the same gene could thicken the skin and make the snake perfectly healthy and fine. And as to the loss of water - some species simply require more humid conditions. You may not like the way it looks but I wouldn't call it cruel until you know more about it.
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a two headed snake can better hunt and eats more,
a snake without eyes can better smell
and a snake with two tails can better threaten
searching for explanations to upgrade things doesn't make them better :uhoh:
 
You know, people have been doing weird Genetics to animals for the last 1000 years. It became part of domestication. I mean, just google Silkie chicken. This is going to happen eventually with reptiles as it has with furred and feathered live stock.
I will say in my personal opinion that I do like the patterns and coloration. I just find these pictures to small for me to view them and get a really good look at the snake.
As for it being cruel, i can not say, i am not a scaleless snake and I can not feel what they feel; they still may be fine. I just don't know or will not say.

Now as morphs and mutations go, I am sure there will be some interest, on a professional biologist/herpetologist level, in this unlike coloration. This could give us a glimpse at how animals eventually lost scales and went to being soft skinned mammals. Seriously, if I was still getting my doctorate in Biology. I would center on this. I find these animals fascinating and would love to research them so more. Heck, i would go so far and say, I would even breed them to document behavior and life span of these animals.

Remember a large selection of Genetically bred animals would not survive in the wild if man disappeared today. Be it the Holstein cow or a pure bred dog, they would disappear along side us.
 
Roy Munson said:
I don't like the idea of propogating these things either, but I can't quite put my finger on the reason. But to play devil's advocate, some of the other mutations that we propogate in captive corns would be to their detriment in the wild. Amelanism is the biggest one I can think of, and it's the most widespread. What are the benefits of an amelanistic snake? If scaleless can be kept without incident in captivity, then why not?
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I agree with what you're saying, but that doesn't answer WHY. The way I understand emoryi was bred to make bigger, heartier snakes. Although I own a Creamsicle, at the time I would have said WHY does a corn snake have to be bigger...? If this is playing (can't think of another word) with genetics, just for the sake of can we... I know the arguement can be made it has been done in the past with good and bad results I just go back to WHY?
 
susang said:
I agree with what you're saying, but that doesn't answer WHY. The way I understand emoryi was bred to make bigger, heartier snakes. Although I own a Creamsicle, at the time I would have said WHY does a corn snake have to be bigger...? If this is playing (can't think of another word) with genetics, just for the sake of can we... I know the arguement can be made it has been done in the past with good and bad results I just go back to WHY?
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Emoryi was bred with corn (when they were considered subspecies of the same species) to make the hatchlings bigger, not necessarily the adults. Bigger hatchlings are easier to feed. :)
 
Roy Munson said:
Emoryi was bred with corn (when they were considered subspecies of the same species) to make the hatchlings bigger, not necessarily the adults. Bigger hatchlings are easier to feed. :)
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OK, that I understand, but why does one want a snake with no scales?
 
Um, this is probably fake. The pigments for skin are in the scales not the skin itself. Thats proven when you see the white skin between the scales. And plus, no-one wants scale less corns. they would be freaky and uncool 2 handle.
 
Roy Munson said:
I didn't mean to twist your arm until you said "uncle". :grin01:

I know where you're coming from. I don't get the appeal either. But heck, there are color/pattern morphs that do nothing for me either...
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You didn't, it's not the color, pattern, morph thing. While it may look cool, not sure on that yet. Does the snake pay a price, I mean I know it's just a snake, but isn't that what they said when they used rats for testing, or any other living thing.
So my question is will a scaleless snake help in future corn genetics, hence the WHY.
 
patm1313 said:
Um, this is probably fake. The pigments for skin are in the scales not the skin itself. Thats proven when you see the white skin between the scales. And plus, no-one wants scale less corns. they would be freaky and uncool 2 handle.
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I've seen scaleless Texas rat snakes with my own eyes, in person. There are other mutant scaleless reptiles as well. I can't verify if the snakes in the pics are pure corn, but they are truly scaleless rat snakes of some sort.
 
susang said:
You didn't, it's not the color, pattern, morph thing. While it may look cool, not sure on that yet. Does the snake pay a price, I mean I know it's just a snake, but isn't that what they said when they used rats for testing, or any other living thing.
So my question is will a scaleless snake help in future corn genetics, hence the WHY.
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I'm guessing that with proper care, the scaleless snake does not pay much of a price. I would think that water-loss would be a concern, but I don't know. If this can be compensated for, then maybe it's no big deal. Amels can't be exposed to much natural light, or any other uv lighting, but this isn't a concern since they don't need lighting. So this shortcoming becomes a dead issue.

But there are albinos of other reptile species that DO require uv lighting to synthesize vitaminD. This would be more of an ethical concern for me-- keeping an animal that requires uv to be healthy, but can't tolerate it.

How does any appearance mutation "help" in future corn genetics? Some claim that the lavender gene carries with it increased potential for spinal development problems. This hasn't stopped lavs from becoming extremely popular.
 
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